Advice, tips, hints etc requested re:conversion cylinders for 58's

[Dai.S.Loe]

Dear people,

last year I damaged my left hand and now find it very hard to hold a pistol with it, let alone fire it.

I've had a sabatical from shooting but now am back. Shot as FCD in my last competition and really enjoyed it. Only problem was that it felt wrong with my Bounty Hunter pistols.

Into my safe I go and my two lovely 58's catch my eye. Out they come and I practice a little with them.

Bloody wonderful. Made fore duelist.

Now I wish to shoot FCD rather than Frontier so I am looking at getting some conversion units chambered for .45 Sch or .45LC

Where is the best place to get them. I have to get an import licence for them from our police but that will be no problem as I have already spoken to them and had consent.

Are they gated versions easy to install?

Can they be sent overseas from the US easily or do I have to get permts from ATF?

Point me in the direction of the best place to obtain these units.

Shipping?

[Silver Creek Slim]

What company made yer '58 Remingtons: Pietta, Uberti, ASM, etc.?

Slim

[Dusty Morningwood]

I do not believe that there are any restrictions, BATF-wise, on this end.  The conversion cylinders are just a "part".  Both R&D and Kirst make gated conversions that should fit.  I think the R&D requires some drilling and tapping - at least the Colt model does.But even the original R&D with six firing pins is a close copy of an original conversion I saw on an antique gun auction.  I was surprised, as I that it was just a simple made-up solution.

[Marshal Tac]

Dai.S.Loe,
I have two '58 Remmies that I recently converted using the R&D Conversion Cylinders. You can order them from Taylor & Co. directly, and as far as shipping them out of the US goes, there should be no problem, as was stated earlier, they are considered a "Part" by BATF. No different than a stock or barrel. 

I am not familiar with the gated conversions, so someone else will have to post regarding that. My understanding is that a competent machinist can cut the recoil shield to make them fit.

I have the standard R&D conversion for my Uberti '58s in .45 Colt/.45 Schofield. They are easy to use and work wonderfully. They allow me to shoot any of my 3 favorite SASS calibers (.45 Colt, Schofield, Cowboy Special), all from one gun, and turn around and go back to shooting Cap and Ball at a moments notice, if I want to.

A couple of words about installing and using the R&D conversions from my experience. First, ensure you order the correct set for the correct make of gun. Uberti and Pietta guns are slightly different enough in tolerences that they do not interchange. Make sure you buy the ones for your guns when you order them. Also, due to some variation in tolerences of the older guns, you might find that you will have to polish or lightly removed some metal from the cylinder window or cylinder gap to allow them to function smoothly. Most drop right in with more recently manufactured guns, but there is always an exception to this rule.
When in use, remember to lubricate the cylinder pin well and often. The '58 was not designed with a cylinder bushing, and the R&D units do not have one either. As a result, powder residue will collect on that pin very fast and this will bind up the works in a matter of a few cylinders full, if you are not careful. Since you have to remove the cylinder to load the unit, (unless you have a gated conversion), lubing the pin before putting it back together is not a big deal. Obviously, this issue is more important when shooting black powder or a sub, than with smokeless, but it is present no matter what powder, just to a varying degree.

Good luck and shoot well. I think you will find the conversions fun and easy to use.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I would recommend either the Kirst or R & D Drop-in cylinders.

I have had the gated Kirst and the ejector system. FWIW the gate flew open on each cylinder fired at least once and proved to be a distraction, didn't hurt anything as the timeing od the chambers keep the cartridges in. I am now using R & D drop-in's in my 58 Remy's and can unlod and reload faster than using the ejectors. I have my R & D Uberti '58 Remy conversion cylinder in one of my 143 year old Civil War/Indian Wars Remy's. It rocks.
Bear in mind that the uberti R &D was NOT made to be used with originals, but in my case it dropped right in and required NO tweaking at all. I have just purchased a third Civil War era Remy that will have another R &D drop in.

I have also reworked a Pietta Kirst to work in an Uberti Revolving Carbine (took.018 off the length(Cylinder Face) and swapped it into and out of 4 Euroarms58"s (they take the Uberti Cylinders) and the carbine and it worked excellent. Also the R &D  and kirst Uberti cylinders swapped between the 5 Great also.

When you get the drill down pat you can swap out, unlod and reload and swap back into the Remy in about 7-10 seconds. Faster than you can unload and reload the gated/ejector models.

A little tip;I'm right handed, I trap the cylinder pin with the rammer in my left hand , push the cylinder out with my thumb of my right hand into my 4 remainingg fingers ,drop the back off, tap the pawl on the bench or use the rammer or a ram I made from a dowel and a bit of antler, to dislodge the empties, load 5 ,replace the back, roll the cylinder back in ,pin it, close the rammer and I'm good to go.

Another tip is to use NO petroleum based lubes with BP. Bore Butter and Olive oil is all I use.

[Flint]

Good advice from all.

I prefer the R&D, as I had trouble getting the Kirst to run smoothly in my Remingtons due to the sharp and irregular spaces of the rachet teeth fitted into the 6 chamber space with the live 5 and one safe chamber.  The "dead" chamber safe position is not a full 1/6th of a turn, so the other five ratchets are shaped according to the space available between the chamber cuts.

The Kirst rachet is also very hard steel and sharply chisel cornered, making mincemeat of the Uberti hand in very short order.  They need a 4140 hardened steel hand to work with the Kirst cylinder.  I also do not like the way Kirst retains the (single) firing pin, by staking it in place.  Seems a replacement, cleaning or repair would be a problem.

The R&D cylinder has 6 firing pins, and they are retained by threaded ferrules, so they are easily removed for cleaning, replacement, etc.  Though the Kirst slides into the gun a bit more easily because the backplate has a clearance slot for the hand's nose, the R&D id easy to insert once you get the habit of rotating it to drive the hand out of the way.   The R&D's rachet is almost identical to the cap & ball cylinder and is easier on the soft Italian steel hand.

Both are equally accurate, and both are manufactured to a very high quality from 4140 and 4150 steel.  Both, though they cost as much, or more, than the revolver you are installing them in, are of such quality as to justify the price.  If the guns were of the same quality as those cylinders, they would cost 4 times what they sell for now. (As the Hartford NMA did/does)

There are ardent fans and supporters of either brand of conversion cylinder.  As someone mentioned, the removal, reloading and replacement of the "drop-in" cylinders is so easy and fast, a shooter with a gated version (or a SAA) will still be shucking out empties when you are back shooting again.....  Watch Clint Eastwood's "Pale Rider".  Watch also the demo on Kirst's website.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have to add this; My Kirst's were both 6 shot 44 Rem/Colt C.F. with NO 5 and one safety slot.

That is the reason I went with the 44 Rem cartridge, that and the fact that the 44 Rem C.F. is, with the 44 Martin C.F. the first of the Remy 44 C.F.'s conversions.  More historically accurate to the time period. Also the 44 Rem 248 grn bullet, loaded with 30 grns FFG in a 44 mag brass is approximate to a 45LC in weight and powder and other characteristics.

[Dai.S.Loe]

I have to add this; My Kirst's were both 6 shot 44 Rem/Colt C.F. with NO 5 and one safety slot.

That is the reason I went with the 44 Rem cartridge, that and the fact that the 44 Rem C.F. is, with the 44 Martin C.F. the first of the Remy 44 C.F.'s conversions.  More historically accurate to the time period. Also the 44 Rem 248 grn bullet, loaded with 30 grns FFG in a 44 mag brass is approximate to a 45LC in weight and powder and other characteristics.

Tell me more about this .44 REM. Do I need to have the barrel sleeved?

Sounds intriguing and I have a lot of .44 spl and mag brass

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

The 44 Rem/Colt Bullet is a heeled bullet that has a .451 dia drive bands(lube between with Bore Butter. so you do not have to line the bbl. it is in reality a 45 cartridge and it can use 44 Mag, 44 special, but is best with 44 Colt brass as the 44 mag and the 44 Special rims are too big in dia. Thes 44 Rem Conversion cylinders are made for the 44 Colt brass.
You can turn the rims down on the 44 Special and the 44 mag brass but the 44 Mags are too long for either Conversion cylinder so they need to be cut bacK 44 mags work in my original Conversion because it has a long cylinder, I can get 30 grns in the 44 Mag case and the 248 Grn bullet is equivalent to a 45LC in velocity.

The 44 Rem/Colt C.F. bllets are available from River Junction or from Old West Moulds, fruita co. Bernie knowles owns OWM and his email is : allisonmonument@aol.com. He also sells the conversion cylinders, moulds crimper dies, sizer dies , ETC for this cartridge and other obsolete cartridges.

The 44 Rem/Colt C.FF. cartridge works in Original Colt and Remington Conversion in 44 C.F. and other 44 BP original conversion that take a .451 Dia bullet (.451 Grooves-.439-.440 lands). Most original 44's that were converted to 44 C.F. use this cartridge.