Dissected an original .44 Henry Cartridge & recorded velocity

[w44wcf]

Here's what I found:

BULLET:
>Weight - 195 grs.  This slightly lighter bullet than 200 grs. is  probably within mfg'g. tolerances at that time.
>Diameter: .429" average  (.428/.430) out of round
>Heel Length: .17"
>Lube groove: 1 - external

POWDER CHARGE: 28 grs. / polished appearance
POWDER ANALYSIS - 20 grs. 3F  +  8 grs (30%) 4F
POWDER COMPRESSION: .08"

CASE: 
>Outside length - .910"
>Inside length - .882"
>Outside Diameter - .445"

OBSERVATIONS:
With an inside case depth of .88",  and a bullet intrusion of .17" (powder space .71" deep)the  .44 Henry rim fire cartridge has about 20% more powder capacity than the .44 Russian.   

The .44 Special case with a 200 gr. Magma bullet (.60" long) seated to  1.51" o.a.l. (overall length) has the  same powder capacity as the .44 Henry.  At that overall length, the powder would be compressed .08", the same amount of compression found in the Henry cartridge.

RECORDED VELOCITY:
I placed the powder charge into a .44 Special case and seated a 200 gr. bullet to compress the power the same as it was in the Henry cartridge.. .08".  Over the chronograph it recorded 1,133 f.p.s.   

The 1875 Winchester catalog indicated that the velocity of the .44 Henry was 1,125 f.p.s. so 1,133 f.p.s. pretty much confirms that.

History is interesting!
w44wcf

[Henry4440]

Thanks w44wcf.
Interesting study.Especially the powder analysis.

[Dusty Morningwood]

Fantastic!  Seems that all things considered, I am being true to the original with my .44 specials (OTs, 66 and Henry) loaded w/28gr FFFG and 200gr bullet.

[Black River Smith]

I am not questioning you but could you please show your math for calculating 'the compression value' of 0.08".

This is one thing I don't understand or see.  Or  Are you assuming a given 1/16" compression.

Thanks for the info and test results.

[w44wcf]

Here's how I determined the powder compression:

After disecting and examining the powder, I poured it slowly back into the case, letting it settle.
I then took a short piece of rod that was a slip fit into the case, placing it down on top of the powder. I then took an o.a.l.  measurement which = 1.32". 

I then subtracted length of the rod (.50") from 1.32 which = .82".
Subtracting .82" from the case length (.91") = .09" headspace (distance the powder is below the case mouth.)

The seating depth of the bullet is .17"and subtracting .09" = .08" compression.

w44wcf



   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Thanks for the report.

I was under the impression the 44 Henry round would use a heeled bullet, much like a modern 22 RF round. Here is a photo of the one I have in my little cartridge collection, the Henry round is all the way on the left:



I don't have it handy to measure it, but I seem to remember the OD of the bullet was very close to the OD of the case, on my round. Your numbers show a difference of .016, which would translate into a case mouth thickness of around .008. That would probably be completely in keeping with a copper cased round inserted into a case and crimped in the modern fashion.

Any comments? I don't want to dissect my one 44 Henry round to find out, but I was assuming it would use a heeled bullet.

[w44wcf]

DJ,

You are correct. The .44 Henry cartridge uses a heeled bullet.  I should have indicated length of the heel instead of the seating depth.  I have since modified my original post.

Regarding the bullet diameter, awhile back there was a discussion on that.  Some Henry cartridges have bullets around .440" while others are as small as .428".  Not sure why .

w44wcf

[Black River Smith]

Thank you, that does make sense.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy w44wcf!

After a week, it's still interesting.  Thanks for posting your findings.  I'll have to try and duplicate these figures on my 45 Colt  1866 Improved Henry! 

By the way, how many of these old cartridges have you done and have you taken photos?  I ask because The Shootist  magazine (the official NCOWS publication) USED to have a fellow who did old cartridge reports.  Your figures of cut-open cartridges and re-dos of them are different enough to be published and not clash with his - which were very interesting.  (No pay for articles, but hearty thanks!)

Anyway, great stuff!

[Grizzly Adams]

POWDER CHARGE: 28 grs. / polished appearance
POWDER ANALYSIS - 20 grs. 3F  +  8 grs (30%) 4F
POWDER COMPRESSION: .08"

The .44 Special case with a 200 gr. Magma bullet (.60" long) seated to  1.51" o.a.l. (overall length) has the  same powder capacity as the .44 Henry.  At that overall length, the powder would be compressed .08", the same amount of compression found in the Henry cartridge.

RECORDED VELOCITY:
I placed the powder charge into a .44 Special case and seated a 200 gr. bullet to compress the power the same as it was in the Henry cartridge.. .08".  Over the chronograph it recorded 1,133 f.p.s.   

The 1875 Winchester catalog indicated that the velocity of the .44 Henry was 1,125 f.p.s. so 1,133 f.p.s. pretty much confirms that.

w44wcf

Most excellent, Sir!  Instructive!   There has been much discussion about the differences in the old BP and the new stuff available now.  Using your information, it would be interesting to run a test using modern powders just to see which comes close to duplicating the original load in terms of velocity.  In part, it would confirm or debunk one of our cherished shooter legends!

[Tuolumne Lawman]

When I was shooting a 45 Colt Henry and 1866, I used a Schofield case, a 200 grain SPG lubed bullet, and 28 grns volume of 3F Goex.  A pard shot some of my loads in his 24" 66 and got about 1140ish.

I figured you can't get any closer than that!

[w44wcf]

Fellow enthusiasts,
Thank you for the kind words.

Steel Horse Bailey,
Haven't taken any photos to date. I plan to in the near future though.  Other original b.p. cartridges I have dissected are .32-20, .38 Special, .38-40, .44-40, .45 Colt & .45-70.   Interesting history.

Grizzly Adams,
Good idea.  I did try a 28 gr. charge of Swiss FFFG and it was almost 100 f.p.s. faster. After thinking about that a bit, I reasoned that is understandably so since Swiss is considered a Sporting Type of black powder (see below). Come spring I will be testing Schutzen FFFG and Goex FFFG. I'll post my results then.  I'm thinking SWISS FFG would duplicate the original .44 Henry ballistics since there is over 100 f.p.s. difference in velocity between that and Swiss FFFG in testing the two powders in the  .44-40  cartridge.

Interesting info on b.p. powder types by Bill Knight written before SWISS was imported into the US.  Swiss is considered a Sporting Rate b.p.  Bill is aka The Mad Monk, and, most recently, aka Dutch Bill     

Powder Types.
During the 19th century a black powder shooter had 3 types of black powder available. These being: Sporting type, Rifle type, and Musket type. Today, the shooter in the U.S. has available one brand of musket type powder and one brand of rifle type powder. I should point out that type of powder has utterly nothing to do with grain size. It is not uncommon to find those who think that the difference in powder types during the 19th century was nothing more than grain sizes. In actuality, each type was formulated and processed to yield a specific burn rate and therefore specific ballistic strength. The ballistic strength having, at that time, been described as "expansive force". Each type was best suited for use in a particular range of calibers.

Sporting type - This was the fastest burning of the three types of small-arms black powder. The fast, "hot" burning sporting types gave diminishing returns at about 1 grain (volume) per caliber. In effect, 45 grains in a .45 caliber bore. It is about 10% hotter (faster) than the Rifle type b.p. Sporting type powder was usually found as an equal mixture of our present 2f and 3f sizes.

Rifle type - Somewhat slower in burn rate, rifle powder give diminishing returns above 1.45 grains per caliber. In effect, 60 grains in a .45 caliber bore.  It has a ballistic strength about 10% greater than the Musket type powders. Rifle powders were also usually an equal mixture of 2f and 3f.

Musket type - The slowest burning of the three, musket powder gives diminishing returns above 1.6 grains per caliber. In effect, 70 grains in a .45 caliber bore.

Tuolumne Lawman,
Thank you for the additional info.

w44wcf

[Will Ketchum]

w44wcf, is there any mention in what you have read of the amount of fouling produced by various grades of powder?  For years I have heard and read that the powders of the 18th & 19th Centuries produced less fouling than most powders produced today.  It has something to do with the charcoal used and the type of wood the charcoal was made from.

I know that in the 18th Century "French" powder was considered to be superior.  Why?  I don't know.

Will Ketchum

[Henry4440]

w44wcf, i'm shooting Swiss 2 (fffg) in my muzzleloaders.It burns hotter and cleaner than GOEX 3fg.And you need 10%-15% less than Goex.
Thanks to Mad Monk for his test:
In a .50 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle, percussion with CCI #11 Magnum caps. .490 ball and .018 cotton drill patching.
80 grain charges.

3Fg powders.
1860 fps, Swiss 3Fg packed in plastic bottles.
1536 fps ave., GOEX 3Fg, 01NO13B
1426 fps ave., GOEX 3Fg, 01NO14B
1490 fps ave., GOEX 3Fg, 02AU01B
1663 fps ave., GOEX 3Fg, 02SE10B

2Fg powders.
1658 fps ave., Swiss 2Fg, packed in tin cans.
1411 fps ave., GOEX 2Fg, 02FE06B
1485 fps ave., GOEX 2Fg, 02SE16B
1511 fps ave., GOEX 2Fg, 02OC07B

In Germany it's getting harder to find GOEX.I have only one tin can left.

[w44wcf]

Will Ketchum,

In answer to your question,  I can report that when I tested some early U.M.C. .45 Colt b.p. cartridges a few years ago in my '94 Marlin, I noticed that the fouling left by the b.p. that U.M.C. used in these cartridges, produced noticeably less fouling than ones I loaded with Goex.
The amount of residue produced from cartridges loaded with modern day Swiss FFG looked similar to the U.M.C. cartridges fouling.

In part here is information from a late  1890's ad for The Hazard Powder Company located in   Hazardville, Connecticut.

Kentucky Rifle  - The standard rifle powder of the country
Fg (coarse), FFG and FFFG (fine),  for ordinary sporting. This powder is made to an invariable standard, burns strong leaving a moist though inconsiderable residuum. The standard rifle powder of the country. The FG & FFG are used by the majority of sportsmen and sharpshooters.
No more satisfactory powder can be found than the FG Kentucky Rifle - the identical brand used by the majority of the victors of the great international matches.

The term "inconsiderable residuum" would indicate that the powder left a minimal amount of residue after burning. The claim that it was moist burning is an added accuracy enhancer for repeated shots.  Modern day SWISS is reported to be moist burning when charge weights do not exceed 1 grain per bore size (ex: 40 grains in a .40 bore).

Henry4440,
Thank you for the added info. Powder lots can make a difference!

w44wcf

[Driftwood Johnson]

Will Ketchum

This has been discussed in considerable detail over on the Open Range, whatever they call the Black Powder Forum there.

The consensus seems to be that the very best charcoal for Black Powder comes from Buckthorne Alder. I have read several times that Swiss uses charcoal made from Buckthorn Alder. It seems that there is a bit of an art to making a charcoal that creates less fouling when used as one of the components of Black Powder. One correspondent over there claims to have been involved in specifying Schutzen for the American market. He made some initial recommendations, and they were ignored. It seems they came back to him and listened this time around. I have 3 pounds of Shutzen in the basement right now and just ordered another 5 pounds. I have not had a chance..............well actually I've been too lazy to load any up yet. But I will be loading some soon, hopefully, and may have some informtation to report later.

I have read that in the 19th Century, some of the best Gunpowder came from England.

[Fox Creek Kid]

You're right about Buckthorn Alder as charcoal made from it gives off the most creosote upon combustion, hence the moist fouling.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I got to shoot an 1866 (REAL!!!) with 44Henry ammo that was custom made.

The gentleman who owns it said his grandfather took the rifle in trade from a neighbor that owed him money. More or less the original owner. When the area dry goods store changed owners, his relative bought a CASE (1000rds) of Heny ammo back in 1881 after being told that Winchester was not shipping sub-case lots to dealers that year.

Anyhow, this gentleman had only 200rds of the stuff left and only fired one round a year on the 4th of July (or there abouts) and cleaned it with just dry patches and WD-40. (nothing wrong with that...)

He told me his gramps caught his dad going through 3 boxes of shells one afternoon back in the 40's and gave him an awefully good whoopin. He had said he had all those spent shells and was looking for some way to reload them.

I told him about how I reload my own WCF and how I have recycled primers. This summer, were going to give it a try if I make it out west again. (or, I he might send me some spent cases and I will give it a try with using match heads and denatured alcohol for the primer)

[My one and only brush with a real firing 1866 WRF rifle.]

(no, I did not get to fire it)