Repro Win 1887 shotguns

[Black River Smith]

I posted the below comment on an NCOWS topic but got no responses, so I thought I would try here:

"I have been looking at this firearm and the fixes.  One of the worst issues that I see is the bottom of the trigger rubbing across and catching onto the sears when opening and closing the action, respectively.

The videos I referenced shows a slot cut in the center of the sears so the trigger slides through.  This was his fix.

Does anyone have an original 1887 or 1901, that could explain how the orginals work? Or post pictures of the trigger/sear interaction?    I cannot believe that John Browning would create an issue like what is seen on these repros.

Thanks"

Any comments or info about the original actions would be appreciated.

[Pettifogger]

Not sure what you are talking about and what you are saying about a "fix" makes absolutely no sense.  The trigger is pivoted to the top of the receiver.  The sear surface is built into the top front of the trigger.  The trigger/sear are one piece. The hammer sear is cut onto the rear of the hammer.  When levering the gun the trigger/sear rides the back of the hammer and when the lever is brought back up the sear surfaces catch and keep the hammer cocked.  That is the way the gun is built and it works perfectly fine.  All of mine have rub marks on the back of the hammer where the trigger and trigger sear ride.  Believe it or not, Browning knew exactly what he was doing.  The trigger on a Colt Single Action rides on the hammer as does the Winchester 73 and most hammer guns.  The only difference is you can't see inside of those.



The notch on the bottom is the half cock notch.  The shallow one above it is the full cock.

[Pettifogger]

Here are photos of the hammer and trigger in their proper relationship and a closeup of the sear engaged.

[Black River Smith]

Sorry, in my original posting I see I did not use the term hammer sear but that is the area I am referring, too.


Well, that does answer my question.  On the repro the bottom of the trigger has a flat spot or 'edge' that catches the 'hammer' sear for a fraction of a second and causes an out of battery -- firepin slam when closing.  According to your pictures that happens on an original also, unless the trigger is shaped differently than the repro.

Thanks for the photos that really does help.



Here is the link to the youtube vidoe of someones 'fix' for this, that I made reference too:  

see about 30 seconds and 5:20.  

[Pettifogger]

It should not catch when closing.  Do you have an IAC/Norinco?  On those they used a two piece lever.  That was pinching people's fingers (making for nasty cuts and lots of blood) so they put a leather cover on the lever.  That made the trigger alignment wrong.  So they bent the trigger.  If yours is bent enough the tip could catch on one of the notches.  If you look at the photos (which are of a Norinco) the trigger is fairly straight in the area below the sear.  I pinned the lever so that it is solid and straightened the trigger to the same specs as an original.  Works much more smoothly now.

[Pettifogger]

I looked at the video.  It is an IAC.  Never seen anyone do that to the hammer sear before.  If the trigger is shaped properly you don't have to.  I also have never seen anyone trying to put the mainspring in the way he is doing it.  A lot of work when it is really quite simple.

[Pettifogger]

Now that I know what you are talking about, here are a few more photos.  The first is the tip of an original trigger.  It is rounded so that even if it contacted the hammer sear it would not catch.  Photo 1.  The trigger rides on the back of the hammer through much of its travel.  Photo 2.  However, when it actually passes over the hammer sear surfaces it does not touch.  Photo 3.  A properly adjusted trigger tip will not catch on the sear.

[Black River Smith]

I do not have one yet.  But it would be the new ones from Century Arms, which I think are the same as Norinco.

I am trying to work through the issues before buying one, so I looked at all the website and youtubes I could find and Caps 35 points.

I have wanted one of these ever since I saw a photo of one in the hands of John Slaughter.  That was back in the 60's in one of my father's magazines.

Thanks for the photos an explanations, they definitely help to understand the issue.

I totally agree with you about the removal of the main spring.  From other vidoes he does make it more difficult than necessary.

Again thanks for the help and pictures.     

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

If you do go and get one, remember to lever with vim/vigor/alacrity ... if you don't spent shells don't seem to get ejected ...

TTFN