'66 winchester

[Texlee]

Howdy,
So I'm kinda a stickler for historical accuracy so I've been lookin around at the available chamberings for the uberti '66 winchester that will closely mimick the original .44 Henry rounds, From what I understand that would be the .44 special or .44 colt. Has anyone ever had their '66 converted to fire .44 colt rounds? I've read about a couple Henry's being converted but nothing else. I'm looking to buy the rifle soon and I'm hoping you fine gentleman could help me out with this.

Tex

[MJN77]

If you have a .44spl rifle you can shoot .44 colt ammo with it. I have heard that some guns have to have their extractor tweaked a bit but not all. The .45 Schofield is also a close duplicate of the original .44 Henry rimfire cartridge. The original 44 henry had a 200gr-216gr .446 bullet over 26-28 grains of powder. A schofield case holds about 28 grains of BP and you can get 200gr. 45 bullets. Most shooters can shoot schofields out of their .45 colt rifles with no mods to the gun as long as they watch the overall length of the ammo. It's just a matter of weather you want a .429-.430 or a .452-.454 bullet. Since you're going with a straight wall case anyway, I would go for the bigger bullet. Good luck on your decision.

[Slowhand Bob]

You can always put in a special carrier for those shortest of rounds such as the Russian or Cowboy 45 Special.  When I have seen the rounds photographed side-by-side the Russian and 45 Special look pretty darn close to right for use as a Henry substitutes.  To me those original frames actually looked like there was a lot more difference in length than just what was desired to go from the Henry round up to the 44-40 length??  Both the .44R and the 45S rounds make ideal BP cartridges that should mimic the original loads pretty close!  These are also excellent cartridges for the conversion revolvers, if you are interested in an early combo caliber.   

I actually have a Henry version of that carrier that I have been holding onto for years, in hopes that one day Hap would take up the tools again to sleeve my 44-40 to accept the straight wall .44s??  If ones gun was already chambered for the 44 Spec then all he would need was the new carrier to handle the Russian, I think??  The same 'short' carrier is also made in a '73/'66 version and I have one of those stuck back also. 

[Texlee]

I was leaning towards the .44 special rifle because my uncle used to reloa for it was walking to part with his supplies as he doesn't shoot much any more. That's good to hear that not much is required to shoot the .44 colt round from it.
Tex

[MJN77]

Just know that .44spl rifles can be hard to find. Again, good luck.

[Abilene]

Just know that .44spl rifles can be hard to find. Again, good luck.

I see that statement a lot.  Cimarron almost always has some in stock, although the model choices are very slim at the moment.

Texlee, my own 13-year old 44 spcl 1866 feeds Black Hills 44 Colt dummies just fine but the extractor slips off the smaller rim and leaves the round in the chamber.  I'm happy with using 44 Spcl so haven't bothered to get it working with the 44 Colt.

[Coffinmaker]

I've done both, with both, to both.  Confused??  Me too.  Every now and then I get a wild hair.  My latest one is costing me a fortune in Cap Guns.  My previous wild hair was to approximate a loading for Henry rifles, chambered in .45 Colt.  The .45 Colt case is way too big so after much expirementation, I settled on the Cowboy 45 Special case.  Only a stock rifle wouldn't run it.  It takes a specially modified carrier and bolt.  ALL my Henry rifles now run C45S like wet grain thru a goose.  But, I wanted more ..........
So I put a modified carrier in my .44 Special 1866 so I could run 44 Special cases.  So, I run C45S cases in my .45 Schofield Open Top handguns with my Henry rifles and I run 44 Russian cases in my 1866 and my Open Tops switched to .44 Colt.  The rifle has also had its barrel cut to 16 1/2 inches to make it a Trapper.
It was a lot of work.  It was also expensive.  I think if I had it to do over, I still would . Lotta FUN

Coffinmaker

[fourfingersofdeath]

" like wet grain thru a goose."

One of the tricks bored kids used to do here was to get a length of string and coat it liberally with bacon fat. Feed it to a duck and it would pass it almost immediately. No sooner would it hit the ground and another duck would gobble it up and pass it to the next duck and so on and so on. When you'd had enough fun, you would knot the string and leave the scene of the crime with a confused circle of ducks, lol.

I use this method to catch ducks when I used to wag school. We'd usually catch a few, pick out the best looking one and let the rest go. Slow fire of coals and a bush spit, yummy lunch. Ended up getting me kicked out of school a year early.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Had 2 Euroarms Win 73 carbines - similar system compared to the Win 66 - converted from .44-40 to .44 Colt a couple of years back.
They are main match rifles for 3 years already for a pard of mine and myself in the classic cowboy class.
Long Johns Wolf

[Cliff Fendley]

Coffinmaker, any info on those modified carriers or how to do them yourself?

I've also thought the 45 cowboy case would be good for closely replicating the henry round in henry and 66 rifles.

How many grains of black powder does a 45 cowboy case hold under say a 200 grain bullet.

[MJN77]

Coffinmaker, any info on those modified carriers or how to do them yourself?

http://www.thesmithshop.com/cbs45.html

[Coffinmaker]

Cliff,
MJN77 cited the source for the modified carrier.  There I'd another method to do it, 'twas done by Pettifogger.  A specially shaped pinned spring.  Pettifogger has a picture of it.
I don't really have a clue.  Seriously.  Not a clue.  I shoot a 160Gr RNFP bullet and set my powder measure to throw powder till I have a light compression.  I've never weighed the charge!!  It works really well in both rifle and handgun so I never worried about how much it weighed.


Coffinmaker

[Slowhand Bob]

Cliff, it should be in the range of 24 to 26grs by volume.  With that heavier bullet it would likely be the lesser, just be sure there is a bit of powder compression!  Like Coffinmaker, I usually opt for the lightest bullets available to me.

[Crow Choker]

     Texlee: I got a 66' from Cimarron back in 08' chambered for 44 Special. At first all I shot through it was various 44 Spec loadings using smokeless powders and 200g cast bullets from a Lee mold and some 240g purchased bullets. I also at the same time purchased a 72' Open Top in 44 Spec and shot 44 Spec using smokeless powder and 44 Colt fired by FFF black powder in it. In 09' I purchased a Mav Dutchman 200g mold from DD using it for the 44 Colt loadings and switching to using FF black powder. I finally got around sometime later to shootin' the 44 Colt rds loaded with black and topped off with the Mav's through the 66'. As of this date, I've had no problems using the 44 Colts in the 44 Special chambered 66 rifle. All is fine with chambering and ejecting. Maybe I got a 'lucky one' that is in need of no modifications. All I shoot through the Open Top and a Richards II anymore are the 44 Colt loadings with FF black. Still shoot some 44 Spec sm-less through the 66, but as written, the 44 Colts work just fine (use 25-27 grains of FF, use the 25.0g loading most of the time-accurate).
    4 Fingers: Using your greased string thing would probably get you 5-10 at some unknown federal facility these days here in the US if some of the tree hugger crowd caught ya at it. We used to make a slipknot with monofilant fishing line, place the loop around the hole of a gopher/ground squirrel. The fishin line was still attached to the rod/reel. Then we'd wait for the critter to pop his head out and 'set the loop'. I would take my Dad's Boatswain Mates Whistle he had in WW2 and blow on it, the critters would pop their heads out thinking and looking for a hawk somewhere above. I'd rear back on the fishin' pole and reel em in. Dry land fishing'! Used the same whistle using a 22 cal rifle to cut down on the population out in the cow pasture.
    Coffinmaker: I had to read your first post slowly and twice. You had me "Dazed and Confused" (any of ya remember that song-Led Zeppelin?). Reminded me of a bit of when I was looking at two cars back  in the early 90's. One was a red 1989 88 Olds model, the other a blue 1988 Olds 98 model. After test driving both, I was sitting in the car dealers office and we both had each other so confused with tossing the numbers, 88, 89, etc about we decided to refer to them as the red and blue one. Bought the red one. This has nothing to do with a 66 Winchester, as does strangling gophers, my deepest apologies.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Cliff,

When I load the 200 grain J/P 45-200 Big Lube®LLC bullets in Cowboy 45 Special brass I use 1.3cc of FFFg Schuetzen.  That works out to be about 20 grains.  Shoots straight, plenty of flames and smoke.  My 1860 open tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders love 'em.  I've been shooting many clean matches with them.

Merry Christmas!

DD-MDA

[Texlee]

Thank you kindly gents for the wealth of information y'all are sharing!
Tex

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   I was going through Granddad's box of old Pre and Post WW1 firearm & ammo catalogues, and found some interesting information in an A. F. Stoeger #23 Catalogue...
   At that time, Winchester .44 HENRY Flat cartridges were selling for $2.93 per 100 count. For ballistics, Stoeger used U.S. Cartridge Co. data: 200 grain Bullet, Black Powder (No Charge, granulation given) at 1075 f/s for 513 f/p.
   Our latest factory Winchester .44-40, 200 grain Jacketed SP is hardly faster than that, no doubt mindful of the older originals still in circulation. My Winchester 1893 Catalogue { reprint } lists three different powder charges for the .44 HENRY Flat, .44 HENRY Pointed, and the .44 HENRY Flat W & C { Winchester & Colt }: 28, 26, and 23 grains, respectively.

           Be Well!

                     M.T.Marfield