45-70 brass don't hold 70 grains, unless. . . . .

[Dick Dastardly]

I designed a long range rifle bullet.  It worked, but it was hard to get 70 grains of Holy Black, or any other powder, under the boolit.  Ok, I thought I'd failed.  But then, I studied on the question and discovered that nobody is getting that much powder under a 500 grain boolit.

Ok, I got to playin' around and found out that if I seat my bullet out to the lands, the front lube grove is outside the brass.  That's not acceptable for a hunting round.  But, I'm hunting 1000 yard paper.  I can put 'em cartridges nose up in a holder and they don't have to bounce around in my pockets.  So, I loaded some of 'em that way.  Whatcha know?  I was able to get 70 grains of Holy Black under 'em even with a 1/16" fiber wad.

They kick like hell, but they are also about 200 fps faster than my previous loads.  I'll run some more graph tests and shoot some paper, but right now, this looks VERY promising.

Big boolits and a thousand yards is a different challenge than SASS steel at 15 yards. . . . . .

DD-DLoS

[Doctor Bill]

DD
Your situation with the 45-70 may hold true for most BPC rifles.  My 45-120 (purchased in a moment of insanity) has never been able to hold more than 110 grains of powder under a 500 grain bullet.  Then again, I'm not sure I want to put any more powder in that thing.   

Doctor Bill

[Waya]

I designed a long range rifle bullet.  It worked, but it was hard to get 70 grains of Holy Black, or any other powder, under the boolit.  Ok, I thought I'd failed.  But then, I studied on the question and discovered that nobody is getting that much powder under a 500 grain boolit.

Ok, I got to playin' around and found out that if I seat my bullet out to the lands, the front lube grove is outside the brass.  That's not acceptable for a hunting round.  But, I'm hunting 1000 yard paper.  I can put 'em cartridges nose up in a holder and they don't have to bounce around in my pockets.  So, I loaded some of 'em that way.  Whatcha know?  I was able to get 70 grains of Holy Black under 'em even with a 1/16" fiber wad.

They kick like hell, but they are also about 200 fps faster than my previous loads.  I'll run some more graph tests and shoot some paper, but right now, this looks VERY promising.

Big boolits and a thousand yards is a different challenge than SASS steel at 15 yards. . . . . .

DD-DLoS

  Hey Dick,,, getting into the long range stuff ??

  It's kinda fun, ain't it,,,,,

.

[Montana Slim]

I'm able to get up to 75 grains of any variety of 2F into any of the available 45-70 brass with the Lyman 500 grain.
It's just a matter of compression. I'm getting about 1250 fps with Schuten 2F. This load kicks hard and was developed for KD buffalo targets.

Slim

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Pards,

It's a completely different game.  But, when ya pull the trigger and wait for the news ya know it's a fur piece out there.  Yer spotter can be a big help.  For me it's a game of nerves.  Launching that big 500 grain slug with enuf omph to get to the target without running out of ladder takes a real push.  The push goes both ways.  Three seconds is a long time to wait.  Most of 60 feet above the line of sight is a high trajectory.

Actually, it's part science, part ballistics and a good part control.  This kind of shooting is real addicting.  I'm goin' to do a lot more of it, now that I figured out how to get enuf powder under my projectile.

I'm thinkn' of lookin' into one of 'em pads that soaks up some of the thump.  Most folks hearabouts are tired of me showin' 'em how I kin clap with my shoulder blades anyway.

It'll be spring before I can get to another organized match.  Till then, I'll do some disorganized practice. . .

DD-DLoS

[sundance44`s]

Dick i bought one of them shoulder pads last year , just for playing with my 45/70 ...figured it was better to use it and live to play another day .

[Grapeshot]

I've been following the procedures in Pat  and Spence Wolfs book on reloading the .45-70 for the original Trapdoor Springfields and I manage to get a weighed 70 grains of Goex FFg into a WW case br dropping it through a drop tube, 22 inches, and using a compression die to compress the powder deep enough to seat a Lyman 500 Grain M1881 bullet to just past the first driving band.

I also opted to drill out the flash hole, per instructions, to 3/32nd inch and use Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers or their Federal counterparts.

So far I haven't had any problems.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm sure you are using W-W brass, as RP & FC are both heavier/less capacity.  I have a 70 gr./3F load, but with the Lyman 420 gr ###193.  Plenty 'nuf for the hawken butt on my Pedersoli Sharps, Gemmer.  With the RCBS 500 BPS bullet I only go to about 63 gr Cart.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Pards,

Now, I finally have some hard data.

Star Line 45-70 brass, CCI 300 primers, DD 45-70 500 grain spire point Big Lube™ bullet, 64 grains FFFg LIDU, 5 grains SR 4759.

I knocked out the old primers with a punch, re-primed and flaired (slightly) the case mouth.  Then I put the 5 grains of SR 4759 powder on the bottom, next to the primer and drop tubed in the 4cc (64 g) of FFFg LIDU (cheep) Holy Black followed by a Circle Fly fiber over powder card and compressed the charge with my 1/2 ton arbor press.  Then, I hand seated, with my thumb, the lube/sized bullet with the top lube grove ABOVE the case mouth.  Then, I ran the loaded cartridge thru the bullet seating die to slightly close the flaired case for ease of loading.  The bullet could still be pulled out with my fingers.  When I chamber this round I have to push the first driving band into the rifling.

I fired over my Ohler 33 graph and got the following data. . .

1330, 1332, 1378, 1398, 1358. . . Average = 1360 fps.  SD=26 fps.

Recoil was snappy, but no worse than a full case of Swiss.  The barrel was CLEAN inside.  There was a nice wet lube star on the muzzle.  (Barrel Length = 34")  I pulled a bore snake thru out of habit, probably didn't need to.

I'm loading up a batch for my next match at Lodi.  I'm thinkn' this load will not run me out of ladder at the 1000 yard line.

I'm a happy shooter. . .

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dick;  Any indication of accuracy?

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Sir Charles,

My back yard allows me some room, but I have to be careful.  There's not a good backstop till I get to 200 yards.  So, I put the target board there.  It took me a couple of sighters to get on paper, but then I got a 2" group with the last three shots.  My dog likes going out to visit the target board so I have to be real careful.

This load seems to not require blow tubing or wiping between rounds.  I like that because I can spend more time concentrating on my game.  Lodi is a slow fire match.

I'll get to a "real" gun range and get some more data and practice.  I sure like shootn' that big boomer.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dick;  Sounds VERY promising!

[Dick Dastardly]

Mornin' Sir Charles,

Longer distances will tell.  At 200 yards the bullet is still supersonic.  The Mach # is 1.047.  At 300 yards and beyond things could look a bit different.  When bullets transition from supersonic to subsonic they "break the sound barrier" in reverse.  Strange things can happen at that time.

I've shot this bullet at 1000 yard matches and other long range matches and it does well.  However, I was running out of ladder.  This new loading will give me the "flattened" trajectory that will keep the aim point within the ladder on my roller.

This is a long term learning project.  I've sold many of these molds with mixed results.  It seems that techneque, discipline and attention to detail are extremely important as the distance grows.  Some are shooting very well and others are struggling.  I'm struggling, but enjoying it.  Also, I'm improving.  What I really like is that I'm doing it my way.  Thanks Frankie. . . .

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Dick;  I am short on LRBPCR experience, but did shoot service rifle & target rifle, both in 7,62NATO out to a 1,000X.  Ranges are getting fewer as time passes and developers whine about the sound of gunfire spoiling their sales records!  We are getting a 1,000x range in Northern BC, on an abandoned cold-war radar base.  All self-help, no more tax-dollars working for us!  I WILL be shooting long range, as well as mid-range with my new Martini .375 Flanged Nitro Express and maybe that Argentine Roller that had its barrel shortened (Re barreled to .45-70??)

I just purchased a "stinkin' badge" from Delmonico, maybe I'll have to get your Ultra Gamer mould to replace my Lyman HB 155gr.   But, damn, that Hollow base bullet is accurate as long as it has an even skirt

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I am JUST able to fit 90gr of BP under a 300gr bullet (Lyman 292gr) in starline 45-90 brass. This is with a thin wad made from the back of one of those computer manuals.

It only has 2 lube groves and it requires a fair amount (.15") of compression with GOEX Express FFg.

This makes a round that "supposedely" duplicates the original 45-90 WCF "Express" load.

I only got to fire 5 of them last fall, with less than optimal preperation, and get reasonable results.

[Dick Dastardly]

I looked at runnin' a reamer a bit further into the tube on my roller, but the 45-90 brass is just too spendy for my purse.  Yet, that would be an answer to gettin' the extra oomph needed go hurl 500 grains of lead a Thousand yards without runnin' out of ladder.  For the time being, I'm goin' to continue developing my current load.

DD-DLoS