More Questions

[matt45]

Howdy All,
Two Flints suggested I post a new thread w/ the questions I have posted on other threads, so I am giving this a shot.
On the question side- I have never loaded Black powder or substitutes in a cartridge firearm.  Does 777 take the same kind of cleanup the ffg does?  Does it need to be compressed, and should one use a wad between it and the bullet?  I assume that all Black Powder and its lookalikes take magnum primers, am I correct?  My powder measure is a Redding BR-3, what should or could I use for a drop tube?  Perhaps I should invest in some reading material dealing with this subject- any suggestions (please keep in mind that I am as green as the grass dealing w/this)  Obviously, we have to mold bullets for the 56-50, what is the best lube (I use a RCBS luber with the hollow sticks).

[Adirondack Jack]

777 is about the easiest smokey powder to use.

Start with ordinary SMOKELESS lubed bullets. (It does not like soft lube).

Load to JUST touch the bottom of the bullet or very light compression (unless ya like em real hot, then compress a little more).  No wads are required, and they say only one thin wad should be used if desired (I don't).

NO DROP TUBES!!!!!!


Avoid overly compressing 777 for use in colt clones or toggle liks.  You CAN get pressures up there a ways if ya compress too much.  1/16 is plenty enough compression.

Clean up with hot water, or windex with vinegar, and swab till dry.  Oil LIGHTLY afterward.

Do soak brass in water or water/small amount of vinegar, or soapy water, to avoid the green meanies.

777 can be dispensed with any smokeless measure.  it loads just like smokeless on a progressive.  (one of it's best features).

Be aware it MUST be measured BY VOLUME, when reading the charts.  It is much lighter than BP, so a charge that is a 20 grain VOLUME charge will only weigh around 15 grains.  DO NOT WEIGH IT AND READ THE DATA Hodgdon provides.  They give data by VOLUME using a BP measure.

[sundance44`s]

Anyone ever use the 777 3f in 45 lc brass loading ? I have 2 cans of it and don`t like it cap and ball style.

[Adirondack Jack]

Might be OK in rifle, but it would be a mite hot in pistols.  FFG is hot enough, thanks.

[jismay]

I have loaded FFFg 777 in 45 colt using the same measure I use for my cap and balls (approx 25gr by volume) some caulk backing rod (about 3/8 inch) and a 250gr RNFP lasercast bullet. Works very well in the '92. I made up a few loads using the same amount of 777 and backing rod and a 165gr black bear bullet and it also worked very well. I know and understand that Hodgdons does not reccomend the usage of the fffg in cartridges, but the difference between 25g 777 and a 148gr ball in a pistol and 25gr 777 and a 165gr bullet in a cartridge should be minimal, and certainly well below the safety margins of any well-maintained firearm.

[sundance44`s]

Thats kind of what i figured ...The 777 3f is some powerful stuff ....thanks

[matt45]

Thanks Adirondack Jack,
So if by volume, and a mention of BP measures-  Any suggestions on what and where I could procure same?  I was unaware that 777 came in different granule size (e.g. 2f, 3f, et.al.)  What would be the right size, then, for a 56-50?

[Adirondack Jack]

I'd use FFG, which I use in .45 and in .50-70.

As far as a measure, here's what I do.  When working up a load, simply fill the case to a level that will give slight compression when the bullet is seated,  then dump that charge in a scale, note the ACTUAL WEIGHT, now using any measure you'd use for smokeless, (free standing or press mounted) adjust the measure to throw that same charge.

Now you have a data point, XX.X grains by WEIGHT, which you write in yer load book, and can repeat next time.  (note how it's just like smokeless once ya figure out what a charge ya need you can do it by weight)
Another simpler method would be to use a sliding brass measure or a LEE scoop that throws a charge that will fill the case up to that same level (a little compression when the bullet is seated) and call it good.

777 is called out by volume by the factory data because it is a BP sub used in front stuffers and cap and ball guns where a feller uses a spout or measure that tosses the amount of BP he wants, and he can use that same spout (more or less) for 777.  Simple slide type brass or lexan measures can be had wherever BP supplies are sold.

For cartridge loading, using an ordinary smokeless measure, it is often useful to weigh that charge and to adjust the measure using a scale.

[hellgate]

Hodgen says it is OK to use a wad under the bullet. You could probably use a fairly thick wad if you needed a smaller powder charge. I would be hesitant to load a full 50gr volume of 777 in your rifle unless it is of modern steel. 777 is a much more powerful powder than FFg BP (15-30% hotter). I will not use it in my Colt style C&Bs for fear of stretching them. Some day I may use it in the Remingtons. I load it into the 357Mag rifle cases and it has the recoil and bullet speed between BP & smokeless full loads.

[matt45]

Thanks guys- great info, and I will be using it shortly.