Newest Toy .... Webley R.I.C. revolver

[RattlesnakeJack]

A local acquaintance decided he was willing to part with his Webley R.I.C. revolver and .... since I've always wanted one .....      

Click on thumbnails -





This double action, sidegate loading/extracting design was first introduced in 1867, and was adopted by the Royal Irish Constabulary the following year, thus becoming known as the "R.I.C." model. A robust, functional and accurate revolver which saw a great deal of civilian, police and military use in Britain and its Empire, as well as throughout the world. Numerous copies of varying quality were produced in a number of foreign countries ..... George Armstrong Custer is reported to have been presented with a pair of R.I.C. revolvers in 1869 by the British Ambassador, and supposedly favored them - it is believed that he was carrying them at the Battle of the Little Bighorn ....

Serial no. 6597

Marked, left side of frame, in front of cylinder:
WEBLEY'S
 R.I.C.
No. 1 .455 CF
NEW MODEL

Winged bullet logo over "W&S" lower front of frame, left side.

Marked on top strap:
ARMY & NAVY (left side of sight groove)
C. S. L. (right side of sight groove)
(This indicates that the revolver was retailed by the Army & Navy Co-Operative Society Limited ... an early "co-op" set up to supply British military and naval officers with virtually everything they required in service.)

Fully functional, bright clean bore with strong rifling.  I have 50 black powder MkI cartridges loaded, and hope to get a chance to play with it briefly following a Cowboy Action match I'm going to tomorrow, which is being held in a small town indoor range - if they'll let me fire BP in there at all, that is .....  

But I'm definitely a happy camper!  

[Oregon Bill]

By gad sir! What a lovely acquisition. Have lusted for one for some time. There's a rumor, er, rumour that Holmes may have favoured an RIC.

[Paladin UK]

A beauty to behold!!!

What yer feedin her on??

Could`nt make out the calibre

Paladin (What thinks ol`  Rattlesnake go hisownself a reeeel bargain! ) UK

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Paladin, I believe in his original post, there's a reference to .455 CF...............Buck

[Adirondack Jack]

That iron be chambered for .455 Colt/Ekey, AKA Webley Mark I.  A fine bit of work it is too

[Paladin UK]

Fer FEB........


I thought..No. 1 .455 CF wuz Tha Serial #  DUH!!!!!

Paladin (Whats gonna have his meds now ) UK

[RattlesnakeJack]

Now that I have had the chance to put a few rounds through it, I'm even more pleased! 

I only fired 15 rounds on Sunday because the small, old indoor range was filling up with more smoke than the exhaust system seemed able to handle ...  

Also, frankly, I decided that my standard load for my other .455 revolvers (effectively the British War Department specs for the MK I cartridge - i.e. 18  grains FF black powder well compressed behind a long-nosed hollowbase 265 gr bullet) was simply too stout to be very pleasant in this little revolver.  They produced very substantial recoil, stupendous muzzleflash ... and cylinder gap flash, for that matter ... and flattened primers, which also gave rise to some degree of safety concern.   

However, other than those minor details, it was an absolute blast ... both literally and figuratively!     It seemed to want to print reasonably well - i.e. likely quite sufficient for CAS-type shooting - but a more definitive test of accuracy will have to await another opportunity with some downloaded cartridges ...

A bit more detail, now that i've had the time to investigate further:  this particular version of the R.I.C. - i.e. the .455 Center Fire New Model - was introduced in 1883.  It had a longer cylinder to accomodate lengthier cartridges, and the cylinder flutes were introduced at this time (I assume as a weight-reduction measure to compensate for the elongated cylinder.)  In fact I learned that, with this version, even .44-40 and .45 colt chamberings were manufactured!   A .45 Colt round will chamber and seat almost all the way in my .455 revolver.  If a .45 Colt would seat fully - it's only about 1/32" short of doing so, as it is - the bullet nose would be nearly flush with the chamber mouth ... I can only imagine the excitement of firing one of those cartridges in this model of revolver - considering how it roared with .455 Webley!

Finally, a fellow who has copies of many of the Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd. firearms sales records, tells me that he was able to locate serial numbers 6596 and 6598 (i.e. flanking my serial number) in the sales records for 1886 - although mine did not show up on his review ....  (He did mention that a review of these records show that the sales were quite jumbled up, serial number wise.  I suppose that may reflect a purchaser's preference for some feature of one revolver over an earlier serial numbered one, so that the later number sold first ... or something of that nature.

[RattlesnakeJack]

I have now discovered that .45 Colt cartridges in fact do chamber fully in my cylinder, and it rotates freely without binding at either back or front with six such cartridges chambered!  On closer examination, I've now realized that the old factory loaded .45 cartridge on display in my den, which is what I used for a "trial cartridge" previously, had some bullet deformation which was coming up against the throat in the chamber, thus preventing that cartridge from fully seating.   Having flattened the bulge, that cartridge (which, at 1.592" is just barely under the 1.60" maximum OAL for both the .45 and .44-40 cartridges) also chambers fully, and the cylinder turns freely with it chambered ....

(I'm now beginning to wonder if this particular revolver was perhaps rechambered to .45 Colt at some point in time .... since the "throat" is so far forward that a .45 Colt case chambers fully.  However, I certainly have no desire to fire that round in it!    As I said, a full "L.o.C.-spec" 18 grain black powder .455 load seemed excessive in it - a 35 or 40 grain .45 Colt load is somewhere I definitely don't want to go!      )

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Jack;  I was talking to my gunmaker today.  He used to work for Webley and said that later  RIC's were often not marked re; caliber and WERE advertised as being chambered in .45 LColt! (He said that there are copies of the Webley out there as well.)

Kerry Jenkinson of Grand Forks BC is a specialist in old calibers, especially the brits.  He has in stock HORNADY .455 Webley MkII cases!  They are manufactured in Eastern Europe.  I'll PM his 'phone & address monday.

[Dick Dastardly]

Great looking gun.

Given all that's been said, I'd look into AJs Cowboy 45 Special brass for some loads.  Might buck less, but still smoke plenty.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I just received a supply of HORNADY marked .455 MkII cases from Kerry Jenkinson of Grand Forks BC.  I PM'd the address to Rattlesnake Jack.

Adirondack;  No sense swaging rims when you can find fnished cases for sale.  BTW, I like the idea of comparing loads in your .45 Spl cases to .455 Mk I cases.  Alla same 'ceptin the "flange", or is it "rim"?