Legal Sass Relvolvers?

[J.J. Ellerd]

I can not tell by the SASS rule Book.. if the Ruger Bisleys are legal for use in the Modern class. Can anyone shed some lIght of this? How about the Blackhawk?

TIA, John

[Major 2]

SASS ....yes  (Adj. sight = Modern class )
NCOWS.... no

[J.J. Ellerd]

Sorry I did not include this is a Vaquero Bisley with fixed sights. Old model. NCOWs states these are legal. This is the the reason for my confusion.

[Major 2]

The fixed sight Bisley is legal for SASS Modern... others classes too.

Unless something has changed, the Ruger Bisley fixed sighted or otherwise is not recognized for NCOWS.

[Camille Eonich]

From the handbook.

Any Main Match revolver with adjustable, Modern sights.
• Two Traditional revolvers cannot be used in the Modern category.
For two revolver stages, it is permissible for one revolver to
be a Traditional style handgun. For one revolver stages, a
Modern handgun must be used.

So you can use the Bisley as long as the other revolver that you use has modern sights.

[J.J. Ellerd]

so the modern gun can be a standard blackhawk or standard Bisley with adjustable sights?
Correct? before I think of spending another $600.00 on a firearm I would like to understand completely.

From the handbook.



So you can use the Bisley as long as the other revolver that you use has modern sights.

[Tensleep]

so the modern gun can be a standard blackhawk or standard Bisley with adjustable sights?
Correct? before I think of spending another $600.00 on a firearm I would like to understand completely.

Any single action with adjustable sights should fit the bill for you.
The "Blackhawk" is a single action with adjustable sights.
The pistol with adjustable sights and a "Bisley" grip and hammer is also a "Blackhawk." It just has a different grip frame.

Now if you are talking fixed sights on the "Bisley" then it is the "Vaquero" model with a "Bisley" grip and hammer.

ANY single action pistol with adjustable sights puts a shooter in the "modern" catagory (for SASS) unless the shooter is registered in one of the "age based" catagories (49er. senior) or "B Western."

Confused now?

[Tensleep]

This is the Bisley Blackhawk

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action&famlst=11&variation=Blued

This is the Blackhawk

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action&famlst=13&variation=Blued

The Vaquero is no longer made in the Bisley model.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

Maj. 2 is right that the Bisley Vaquero in not NCOWS legal.

[J.J. Ellerd]

Yes, but I have a Bisley vaquero fixed traditional sights (fixed) That I can't use for cowboy action shooting be cause it is not "modern" or "Traditional"

This is the Bisley Blackhawk

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action&famlst=11&variation=Blued

This is the Blackhawk

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action&famlst=13&variation=Blued

The Vaquero is no longer made in the Bisley model.

[Tensleep]

Yes, but I have a Bisley vaquero fixed traditional sights (fixed) That I can't use for cowboy action shooting be cause it is not "modern" or "Traditional"

Why is that?

I shoot Ruger Bisley Vaqueros (with fixed sights) at almost every SASS match that I go to. This will be in the "Traditional" class.

If you have one fixed sight pistol and one adjustable sight pistol the you shoot modern.

[Major 2]

Yes, but I have a Bisley vaquero fixed traditional sights (fixed) That I can't use for cowboy action shooting be cause it is not "modern" or "Traditional"

Sure it is ... If I confused you I'm sorry 

Your Ruger Bisley fixed sighted Vaquero is quite legal in SASS traditional class , pair it with another and your shooting traditional , or gunfighter .
However if you pair it with an Adj. sight Bisley , Blackhawk or whatever your regulate your yourself to Modern ( or maybe Senior if your old enough).
I suggest, you get another Ruger Bisley though, they grip and handle differently and switching to a plow handle in the stages, may take some getting used to and be enough to throw you off.

NCOWS is a different camp & regiment, not as big as SASS , but more stickler to period firearms.
example: the Henry Repeating Arms Big Boy like the Ruger Bisley & Blackhawk , is not recognized either.
SASS is more liberal, and the Modern class is an example, at least one adj. sight Revolver must be used.

Fact is ,some local SASS posse's will allow you even Double Action ( shot single action only) an event or two.
I used a 1902 S&W Hand Ejector Model in 32-20 my first time in the early 80's (still have it ,though it does not go anymore)

[J.J. Ellerd]

As A new person, I want to thank everyone. For answering my stupid questions, Thanks for your patience.

I really do not want to get involved in being period correct I live here and now. I was into muzzle loading, but the primitive gatherings got to me. In reality every one that went got to primitive rendevious goy there by automobile. but lord help you if you had something in-correct in your dress, or in your possibles bag. What a crock. I just want to shoot my single action. I'll just continue to go to the range and do just that. I won't have to worry if I have the  correct holster, right pants, etc. I will use My old Hunter holster rig just as I have been doing for the last 45 years.

End of Rant....

Thanks Again, I'll Just retire to the sidelines.

[Gold Canyon Kid]

Yes, but I have a Bisley vaquero fixed traditional sights (fixed) That I can't use for cowboy action shooting be cause it is not "modern" or "Traditional"

You can shoot your Bisley Vaquero with fixed sights in almost all SASS categories including Traditional (but not in Modern or cap and ball category).  Since your gun does not have modern adjustable sights, it can't be used in the Modern category.  It is possible to take an adjustable sighted gun (i.e. Blackhawk or Single Six) and change out it's grip and hammer and end up with a Bisley Modern (adjustable sighted) gun. There were/are also adjustable sighted Bisley gripped pistols made by Ruger stock from the factory, should you want the adjustable sights and a Bisley grip. A friend of mine has quite a collection of Single Sixes in 32 H&R with Bisley factory grip frames for example. 

[J.J. Ellerd]

As I understand the rules 38/357 revolvers car not be used in the "Traditional" class.

You can shoot your Bisley Vaquero with fixed sights in almost all SASS categories including Traditional (but not in Modern or cap and ball category).  Since your gun does not have modern adjustable sights, it can't be used in the Modern category.  It is possible to take an adjustable sighted gun (i.e. Blackhawk or Single Six) and change out it's grip and hammer and end up with a Bisley Modern (adjustable sighted) gun. There were/are also adjustable sighted Bisley gripped pistols made by Ruger stock from the factory, should you want the adjustable sights and a Bisley grip. A friend of mine has quite a collection of Single Sixes in 32 H&R with Bisley factory grip frames for example. 

[Major 2]

As A new person, I want to thank everyone. For answering my stupid questions, Thanks for your patience.

I really do not want to get involved in being period correct I live here and now. I was into muzzle loading, but the primitive gatherings got to me. In reality every one that went got to primitive rendevious goy there by automobile. but lord help you if you had something in-correct in your dress, or in your possibles bag. What a crock. I just want to shoot my single action. I'll just continue to go to the range and do just that. I won't have to worry if I have the  correct holster, right pants, etc. I will use My old Hunter holster rig just as I have been doing for the last 45 years.

End of Rant....

Thanks Again, I'll Just retire to the sidelines.

There is no stupid question to it.... no one is born all knowing.

As to reenacting , be it primitive rendezvous or Military (I.E. CW ,IW , Rev War, Span-am ) you get from it what you put into it.
That is the challenge for the individual, it's not for everybody.
There are good groups that will help you and make you welcome ( working toward your impression )
And there are the Authenticity Nazi's that will make you feel un-welcome ( perhaps these are the the folks you ran into)
Funny though, they had to start out once too....

Living History or more correctly re-living history can be rewarding (very rewarding).
I actively reenacted Cavalry for 28 years, Today I do the Florida Cracker era.
My interest in mounted Cavalry lead to a career in film, Everything from French & Indian War to Rambo III.

Oh... and forget the sidelines... jump in , the water fine and y'll surface just fine....lots of friendly folks ridin, shoot'n' and gett'n dirty 

[Major 2]

I believe 38 is the most popular caliber after 45 ... with maybe 44 or 44/40 a close third

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Let's start from the top.

Here is the logic of the Modern Category in SASS that is causing the confusion: The Modern Category was originally created because there was a perception in the very beginning or the game that adjustable sights gave the shooter an advantage in this game. Subsequent experience has proven that for fast action shooting like CAS there is no measurable advantage to adjustable sights. The fact that sights are adjustable just does not enter into the equation. However, this reality has not caught up with the category system yet. There is talk of changing it, but that is an entirely different discussion.

Because of the perceived advantage to modern sights, the rule is that just one adjustable sighted revolver automatically puts you into the Modern category. So somebody who owns a regular fixed sighted revolver and a Blackhawk, must compete in the modern category, despite the fact that one of his guns is a 'Traditional' revolver. Of course, two adjustable sighted revolvers puts you into Modern too.

A fixed sight Ruger Bisley Vaquero is completely acceptable as a 'Traditional' main match revolver. It has a simple blade front sight and a groove in the top strap for a rear sight.

The word 'traditional' as used in CAS is the source of endless confusion. When CAS was originally started in the 1980s, the majority of pistol shooters were using two handed holds on their pistols. So 'traditional' was the term used to describe what most shooters were already doing when they migratede to shooting old fashioned guns. The term 'duelist' had to be coined to describe holding the pitol with one hand. This has been an endless source of confusion, but that is still another conversation. There is no requirement that ammo in SASS be 'authentic' old west cartridges. Here are some quotes from the handbook:

MAIN MATCH AMMUNITION

• Revolver ammunition must have a muzzle velocity less than
1,000 fps. Rifle ammunition must have a muzzle velocity less
than 1,400 fps. Shooters may be held responsible for damage
caused to a target or injury to personnel due to "bounce back"
because of inappropriate ammunition. This major safety violation
is grounds for "instant disqualification" and ejection
from the match.


REVOLVER CALIBERS
• Must be centerfire calibers of at least .32 caliber and no larger
than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber
and no larger than .45 caliber.
• Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers.
Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum,
.357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt).
• Standard velocity .22 caliber rimfire ammunition is allowed
within the Buckaroo Category only.

At this time, the only category that further limits the description of ammo is Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl. Here is a partial quote from the handbook describing the Classic category:

CLASSIC COWBOY/COWGIRL
• Any Main Match revolver with non-adjustable, traditional sights.
• Revolvers must be shot duelist style. See Duelist description
for required shooting technique.
• Revolver calibers: .40 caliber rimmed cartridges or larger—
revolvers and rifle (e.g., .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44
Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt) or .36 caliber cap & ball
or larger.
• May use any legal ammunition as long as it adheres to the
above caliber restrictions.
• Rifles: Any 1873 or earlier manufacture SASS–legal rifle or a replica
thereof (e.g., 1866 Winchester, 1860 Henry, 1873 Winchester).
22 SASS Shooters Handbook
• Shotguns: SASS–legal external hammer double barrel or lever
actions.

[Camille Eonich]

JJ, some of the answers that you are getting may be a bit confusing because there are two seperate sets of rules that are being referred to.  One of the CAS clubs is SASS (CAS = Cowboy Action Shooting while SASS = Single Action Shooting Society) and another one of the clubs is NCOWS (National Congress of Old West Shootist.

While both clubs or participate in CAS and there are a lot of similarities they also have a lot of differences.  NCOWS is a bit more strict about the historical aspect in both clothing and guns.  SASS is less restrictive and has categories such as B Western which revolves more around the western shows that we all grew up with.

You're not going to have to do any kind of research on clothes or anything to get into a SASS match.  You will need a button shirt with long sleeves, a cowboy hat and some boots unless your going to come in some type of native american, injun garb.

Look here http://sassnet.com/  and look here  http://www.ncows.org/


Also if you want to see a bunch of pictures from some SASS matches just head over to our web site.   http://www.kimandbarrymckenzie.com/Cowboy%20Action/Index.html

[Ransom Gaer]

J.J. Ellerd,

Before giving up on CAS go to a match and  see what it is all about.  Your Bisley is legal in most all of the categories and if you are shooting .38/.357 in it that is legal too as Driftwood and others have said.  You will also find that at the matches what people wear will vary from loosely "Cowboy" to period correct military uniforms.  In this game there is a ton of latitude about what you do at least with SASS as a national organization.  Local clubs are at times known to be even looser about the rules than SASS.  CAS for many is all about shooting their guns first and the other aspects second.  The only rules I have seen strictly enforced are the ones dealing with safety.  What category you shoot in is as much about scoring as anything.  This is a competition afterall.  Choose a category that best fits you.  I'll describe how I do things, but this won't necessarily fit you and that is fine with me.  I shoot in Frontier Cartridge and prefer to dress as historically accurately as I can for the character I portray.  Also the guns I use are as close modern replicas can be to originals to the period I portray as possible.  But you won't see me critisize someone elses outfit.  It isn't appropriate.  This isn't reenacting.  I see this game as a variation of the cowboys and indians I played when I was a kid.  This is supposed to be fun.

Ransom Gaer