Ruger New Vaqueroes in .44 Spl/.44-40

Grapeshot · July 02, 2006, 09:48:15 AM

Obviously we are ignoring the facts that the .44WCF rims are the same size as the .45 Schofield rims. So I will pose this question again. Do any of you out there on the Cyber-Prairee shoot .45 Schofield rounds out of your .45 Colt Chambered RNV's?

If this is the case, then the rim diameters are not offset by slopiness as would be by puting .44WCF cases in .45 Colt Chambers.

According to the drawings of the Cartridge Cases mentioned in Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading", Second Edition the rims of both the .44/40 and the .45 Schofield are 0.525 inches in diameter.

Both the .45 Colt and the .45 Schofield have a head diameter of 0.480 inches. So there goes the argument for sloppy fit in the chambers. If they work in any of the clones, and the RNV, then a .44/40 chambered cylinder should be a natural step forward. For some reason, other than what has been stated here on this thread, Ruger refuses to accept our request for a .44/40 RNV.

Until I see a machinist drawing of a RNV's cylinder and the measurements that prove that the .44/40 is not a viable option, and word back that NO ONE can fit a cylinder full of .45 Schofields in a .45 Colt chambered cylinder I will have to believe that Ruger is taking the easy way out and denying that it can be done.

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Grapeshot SASS 8553

Listen, do you hear it? The roar of cannon, the screems of the dying. Ahh, music to my ears.

Sacramento Johnson · July 21, 2006, 05:42:33 PM

Howdy Pard!

I read the original thread on the SASS wire awhile back...

Regardless of whether Ruger can or can't make a NRV in 44-40, I believe they won't. I had an interesting discussion with a Ruger rep at the very first SASS convention in Las Vegas several years back. Rumor then was that Ruger was going to delete the 44-40. I talked with the rep and he said yes; that caliber made up about only 1% their RV sales and they planned to drop it. Although it stayed listed on their web site for the next year, all they were doing was getting rid of old stock. By the end of that year, CDNN was dumping the last of them for $299 each. During that year, I sought out a number of them; they were all old stock that had been sitting at various distributors' warehouses for years, some with serial numbers dating to when they were first introduced in the mid '90s. Given the poor sales (in Ruger's view) of that caliber in the prior RV, I highly doubt they will produce it again in the NRV, even if they could. As for special runs ala Davidson's, I, too, doubt that as I heard most of those did not sell well, either. CAS is a niche market (and probably shrinking), in tougher economic times than the 90's, and Ruger appears to have more bean counters running it now than earlier...

Cyrille · July 22, 2006, 06:28:46 PM

Sigh--- It's all about the bucks ain't it, Ruger had a d--n good revolver in 'Vaquero' built on the 'Blackhawk' frame but they just had to produce a "Colt" Clone i.e. the New Vaquero, Now when I can afford a "new gun" the one I want is no longer in production, I have been looking a gun shows but so far no luck. I know I can order one from CASS dealers but I'd rather see what I buy Before I buy it.

Cyrille · August 21, 2006, 09:28:22 PM

Thanks Mr. James.
My credit card is still smoldering I recently found an OM Ruger Vaquero at a gun show in my area. It now rests in my "safe" except on the weekends when it gits down n dirty!

I will look at the sites you have provided, who knows I may find another revolver I cannot live without!

Cyrille · August 21, 2006, 09:51:56 PM

Yeah, revolvers are kinda like potato chips or Chester Cheetah cheese balls "ya can't eat just one"

fourfingersofdeath · November 04, 2006, 11:37:23 PM

Its funny, but over the last few years, they guys with small hands and those who really wanted a Colt but couldn't afford one went on and on and &%$#@@ on about how heavy the Vaquero was and why don't they bring it out with Colt sized grips. I had a 44Mag Vaquero and couldn't see what the problem was. Now we want the big grips all of a sudden.

If you think back, before the cowboy game dominated SAs, gunzines and users everywhere, decried the 38/357 in a Colt or clone. The 'heft' was wrong, you wouldn't be seen out with one, etc, etc. Now thay are the norm, we seem to have forgotten about heft, etc.

I have enjoyed my old Vaq and have tried unsuccessfully to buy a running mate for it.Mick.

Cyrille · November 05, 2006, 08:32:20 AM

Mr. Fourfingers:
Check out the web sites listed by Mr. James, there are OM Vaqueros listed in quantity.
Personally I enjoy my OMVs in .45 Colt caliber I think Ruger made a great mistake in discontinuing them. But then what do I know? Anyway If someone offered me an even trade one of my OMV's for two NMVs foux ivory grips and in SS
I would think long on it then refuse.

Trailrider · November 06, 2006, 11:31:08 AM

Quote from: fourfingersofdeath on November 04, 2006, 11:37:23 PM
Its funny, but over the last few years, they guys with small hands and those who really wanted a Colt but couldn't afford one went on and on and &%$#@@ on about how heavy the Vaquero was and why don't they bring it out with Colt sized grips. I had a 44Mag Vaquero and couldn't see what the problem was. Now we want the big grips all of a sudden.

If you think back, before the cowboy game dominated SAs, gunzines and users everywhere, decried the 38/357 in a Colt or clone. The 'heft' was wrong, you wouldn't be seen out with one, etc, etc. Now thay are the norm, we seem to have forgotten about heft, etc.

I have enjoyed my old Vaq and have tried unsuccessfully to buy a running mate for it.Mick.

Howdy, Pard,
I think the main complaint (I KNOW that's mine) about the OM Vaqueros, Blackhawks, etc., produced after the Flat Tops were discontinued was/is the GRIPFRAME. I for one would have preferred to see the original XR3 grip used on the Flat Top Blackhawks retained or at least offered as an option on the OM Vaqueros, Blackhawks, NM Single Sixes, etc. This COULD have been done with a slight redesign to the internals of the XR3 gripframe (to accomodate the transfer bar, trigger return spring, etc. of the New Model guns). Ruger chose, unwisely I believe, to drop all the older guns in favor of a NM Vaquero, which, while approximating the size and shape of a Colt's SAA, must also have the engineering margins of the OM guns. To do that, they had to decrease the diameter of the chambers' circle so the O.D. of the cylinder could be decreased to match the Colt's frame size. This essentially upge%u@&ed the possibility for .44-40 or .45 Schofield.

So far as this being "just a matter of money" is concerned...Yup! That's the name of the game for ANY business. If .44-40's aren't worth producing, then that's what is going to happen. Frankly, however, Ruger messed up on the original OM Vaqueros in .44-40 when they went for the rediculously tight chambers and throats, based on the JACKETED Winchester and Remington factory load bullets being produced at the time (.425"), and then compounded the "felony" by using .44 Mangle-em barrels. By the time they yielded to the complaints about the problems, both in the gunwriting press and from irrigated (sic) consumers, the bad rep had been established, and some folks who MIGHT otherwise have bought .44-40 Vaqueros, had moved on to other pastures! (And NO! my OM Vaqueros in .44-40 WITH the tight throats AIN'T for sale! I use them to drive tacks with!)

If you will pardon a rant from a former aerospace (or any other kind of) engineer, there has been a culture of bean-counting CEO's and other top level (not "quality") managers IGNORING recommendations from their engineering staff! Which is why we have Barretta Laramie's chambered for .45 LC but "not designed to accept the .45 Schofield cartridge", when the guns are made by the same outfit (Uberti) that is making the Schofields which will accept both cartridges! And why things have fallen out of the sky in flaming pieces!

One question I was asked at a gunshow over the weekend was whether the Super Blackhawks were still being made. I haven't had a chance to check with Ruger, but if they are making Super BH's, and the Anniversary Flat Tops, they OUGHT to be able to make the OM Vaqueros...eventually...and presuming they haven't junked all their machinery or CNC programs! Take a look at the history of Ruger stock over the past five years. Maybe somebody in that company ought to do some real hard thinking!

Mustang Gregg · November 06, 2006, 04:24:40 PM

Trailrider:

Amen, Brother!

MG

Four-Eyed Buck · November 07, 2006, 09:44:47 AM

Went to the Summit County gun Show last weekend and saw many old model Vaq's, new, for sale. This included the birds heads and Vaquerito's, too. More of them than the new models!!..................Buck

Four-Eyed Buck · November 07, 2006, 09:58:48 AM

Okay, got my NRV out and put 6 empty Scho. cases in the cylinder, no problem

My NRV is in the early group, 800+ serial number. I also dry fired it this way, no hang ups.....Hope this answers the question posed above.........Buck

fourfingersofdeath · November 09, 2006, 11:29:05 PM

I was talking about shopping for a used gun in Australia. Most of the SAs with calibres bigger than 38 have been handed in and crushed. Those who went to the trouble of getting a high calibre license are hanging on to theirs. I occasionally run into a blackhawk (they have been here a lot longer and are more common I suppose) and the odd clone, but no luck with a vaquero yet. I have picked up a 7.5" Super blackhawk and my smith wants to 'Vaquerise' my SS NMSBH to match its stablemate the Vaquero. If I don't find one soon, I might give him his head and let him go, he is a classy machinist. Mick.

Sacramento Johnson · November 14, 2006, 02:58:43 PM

Howdy!

Frank James, that gun on gunsamerica isn't nickel plated. It looks to be SS. I've seen it there before. The seller is a fool if he/she thinks it's nickel.

Trailrider, I heard part of the reason Ruger redesigned the vaquero was that the old vaquero tooling was wearing out and needed replacement anyway. Have no idea if this is true. I do suspect one of the reasons the smaller vaquero was made was do to unit cost. It's smaller/has less steel in it, and yet it's priced higher than the old vaqueros were, probably leading to more profit per piece sold.

As for whether the regular SBHs (and BHs) are being made still, good question; I don't know. I think Ruger would be very foolish to discontinue them. Their market was never really CAS shooters, rather hunters, plinkers, hikers, etc. and they didn't seem to be complaining about the pistols being "too big".