Cleaning kit

[DarbyFett]

I have used search, and have read St. George's great notes about cleaning equipment. But I am still at a bit of a loss.

My persona(very much in development) is of a young criminal that is always on the move. And I am sure would have some cleaning implements on his person. I carry at 1873 winchester and a 1851 RM conversion. Late 70s so I know cleaning kits were not yet a standard item.

I have found reproduction Winchester cleaning rods, but my 1873 doesn't have the trapdoor. Would it be out of the question to roll them up in a small buffalo leather pouch with an oil bottle(I will cheat and fill it with CLP, sperm whale oil sounds hard to get a hold of )  and some tow or should I use small cotton patches? Would I not carry a brush as well? The original rods only have the slot for patches so I assume no brush.

But would the cleaning kit of the time basically be rod,oil and patches?

would an oil bottle like this be ok? I assume the o-ring kinda kills it.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(baixlq55vaa3oqq1ge31pi45))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=1&subId=19&styleId=98&partNum=OILER-TCB

Maybe something more like this? I know this is technically stuff from the wrong era, but I figure its worth a shot.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(baixlq55vaa3oqq1ge31pi45))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=1&subId=19&styleId=98&partNum=OILER-B

[Mogorilla]

More knowledge folk will chime in, but don't count out the first because of the o-ring.  Rubber was developed and used in the 1800s, but not sure for this particular purpose.  Also for the second, also not sure this would be for the wrong era.   Especially if you were a thief, Cased sets were still marketed through manufacturers and would have all the accoutrements.   If you are going for NCOWS originals documentation, you will need to do more research, but I started alot of mine on auction sites, they give a general timeline with the pieces, which may or may not be correct depending on their knowledge, but it gives you places to start.

Good luck
Also, great you aren't so authentic as to want the whale oil, like the big shaggies, not enough of them around.   
Keep clear of the Pinkertons.
Mo

[St. George]

My 'St. George's Notes XXXII - Gun Tools' covers this one, and the advice to review the reprint Mail Order catalogs of both 'Sears, Roebuck' and 'Montgomery Ward & Co.' will give you 'exactly' what was available during the era.

Copies are usually available at your Public Library.

In general, commercially-available cleaning rods were jointed wood - and were for rifles and shotguns, primarily.

Remember - during the time frame - a 'good cleaning' meant using more oil.

They weren't as scrupulous (or obsessive) about cleaning weapons then, as they are today - and beyond removing the cylinder or opening the breech - most would never detail-strip their weapons.

As to an O-Ring - replace it with leather, and you have what was common - but a glass bottle would've been more in keeping with the times.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Will Ketchum]

St.George will correct me if I am mistaken but I think it ws common to cut a slit in a leather thong and slip a patch in it.  Then you merely ran the running end of the thong from breech to muzzle and pulled the patch through.

Normally you wouldn't have to clean during a match unless you are having lube problems, so you wouldn't need to have a cleaning rod in your kit

I would consider St. George's suggestion of getting a reprint of a period catalog.  You can find themat River Junction or even E-Bay.

Will Ketchum

[St. George]

The slit in a piece of leather thong would work well - and so would a simple loop on a piece of stout, waxed cord.

The Army actually affixed a brush to the end of a pull-through - and that worked well for breechloading Carbines during the Cilvil War.

S&S Firearms used to have originals for sale.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Roscoe Coles]

 I can't seem to find the thread on gun tools but this is a subject that has interested me for a while.  I have been gathering original cleaning tools, particularly for the shotgun, for some time and assembling a period cleaning kit to take to NCOWS events.  The shotgun tools are often found in junk boxes at gun shows, in fact, I have never paid for any of the ones I have as they came along with other junk.  Looking at the Montgomery Wards and Sears & Roebuck catalogs is helpful, but they are relatively late, primarily in the 1890s.  Getting a grasp on the earlier gun cleaning equipment is a bit tough.  Once its out of context, how would we know when it was from? 

  Looking through Steel Canvas by RL  Wilson, I noticed a number of rifles with cleaning equipment.  The first is an engraved slant breach sharps in its original shipping box and with the original cleaning tools.  This is an early gun, probably pre Civil War.  It includes two cleaning rods, a wood wiping stick and a steel rod with an eye for a patch.  The box also contains a short brass rod for cleaning a pistol or possibly the chamber on the Sharps?  There is also what looks likes a bronze bore brush and a pull through of some type.

  I thought the wood an steel cleaning rods was odd but another page in the book shows the Gzowski 1876 Winchester, which is cased in velvet  with both a steel and wood cleaning rod.  Other cased Winchesters, 1873s and 1892s, have a single piece brass or steel rod, though the 1873 rifles came with jointed rods.

[Cactus Rope]

The slit in a piece of leather thong would work well - and so would a simple loop on a piece of stout, waxed cord.

The Army actually affixed a brush to the end of a pull-through - and that worked well for breechloading Carbines during the Cilvil War.

S&S Firearms used to have originals for sale.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

AHHH, the original boresnake!

[St. George]

No - merely a pull-through.

A 'Boresnake' is designed to clean all along it's length - a pull-through just drew a bit of tow  and 'maybe' a bristle brush through the weapon.

But we're getting afield from the original topic - that of a 'common' cleaning kit, and not one in a cased set.

The best way to see what may've been in use is still going to be a period catalog that illustrates the item.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Roscoe Coles]

St. George.  The slant breach sharps I mentioned is not a cased set.  Its just in the shipping box with all the tools in with it.  They appear to have been used.  I have tried to link a picture up but the file is too large.

Also, I think that looking at period cased sets is very important when trying to understand early cleaning tools.  Although they are much nicer than the daily use cleaning gear, they are in context an can be dated.  Better yet, a cased set has a spot for everything so that its easy to see if something is missing or something has been added.  As such, cased sets are almost the only ARTIFACTS that can show us what kind of cleaning equipment was available at a specific time. (the historical record also provides sources, but they are meager)  This does not mean that everyone had this stuff, just that it was in use and was considered standard enough that it should be included in a cased set. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I've been interested in this topic for years.  All the little gizmos and gadgets that came with old guns ... and new ... fascinate me.  When I started down this long road called CAS I decided early on that I wanted to be as authentic as possible.  I had never heard of NCOWS; this was MY interpretation and done with SASS.  Times have changed, and now I prefer the authenticity of NCOWS. 

I had a nice big piece of scrap leather that I made into a roll with straps laced through it holding wood-handled screwdrivers and a wood rod I made which accepts brass brushes and patch holders.  I also decided I was still going to use my beloved BreakFree CLP (tm) and Lucas Gun oil, as well as Bore Butter "grease" and other modern chemicals.  No bear grease for me.  I also have a Boresnake (which gets washed after most uses, so as NOT to harbor any grit) and other more modern tools.

Well, now I'm looking to replace my "new" stuff with glass bottles and cork stoppers and more authentic paraphernalia ... 'tho I'll probably STILL use the modern stuff for the actual "dirty work."  As you can see, I'm stuck between authenticity and modern - much better - tools and chemicals.

I figure that as long as my tool roll is rolled up, that's authentic enough ... when I have to do serious work - which is how I think of cleaning as well as any repair work - all "bets are off."  But I still wish to HAVE the old tools.  I've even heard that a company is marketing synthetic whale oil, but I don't know any details.  As good as whale oil is reported to be, I find it hard to believe that it's better than Lucas Oil, BreakFree, Rem Oil, Ed's Red, etc.  Not to mention the various fine cleaning fluids available.  As St. George pointed out, cleaning "back in the day" generally meant more oil, but we know better nowadays.  There's no real need to have to revert back to ... how do I put this ... neutralize the salts from BP firing by using a certain bodily fluid or things of that nature!




For any of you who have pictures of old equipment and can post them, thanks in advance for sharing them.

[DarbyFett]

Sorry been out of the loop for a few days.

St.George will correct me if I am mistaken but I think it ws common to cut a slit in a leather thong and slip a patch in it.  Then you merely ran the running end of the thong from breech to muzzle and pulled the patch through.

Normally you wouldn't have to clean during a match unless you are having lube problems, so you wouldn't need to have a cleaning rod in your kit

I would consider St. George's suggestion of getting a reprint of a period catalog.  You can find themat River Junction or even E-Bay.

Will Ketchum

Perfect! With an oil bottle and some patches that makes a handy little cleaning kit.

Now if I went and did some period camping alone, real light weight and shot some. Would I be ok for a few days as far as salts go?

Also, the catalogs are about 20 years in the future for me.

[St. George]

You likely would.

Old-timers used hot, soapy water, too - poured down the barrel from the breech.

That method was used with British rifles as well - in fact - the Brits provided a funnel and hose arrangement to facilitate it.

'Cordite' is a bit more corrosive than one might like - and that propellant was last used in the .303, if I recall.

As an aside - the only way you'd smell 'cordite' was if you and the bad guys were firing SMLE's at one another - but as a term, it's better than 'powder'.

As to 'authentic enough' - there's some truth in that - but from what I see, weapons maintenance happens far 'off the Line' where the maintenance of period appearance isn't as critical.

By all means - assemble a 'correct' kit - just remember that they didn't exist in the way you'd think they did and use the Mail Order catalogs as a reference.

It took the Army quite some time to issue a 'kit'.

They issued a 'worm' - a ramrod/wiping rod - sometimes, a headless cartridge extractor, a combination tool, and tow.

Oil was provided on an 'as-needed' basis - there was no issue container.

Those came 'far' later - with the adoption of the Krag and the little nickelled oiler and cleaning rod arrangement carried in the buttstock trap - the noise dampened with a couple of flannel patches or tow, and a combination tool in the McKeever pouch.

Were a man issued a revolver - 'sometimes' an 'L-Shaped' screwdriver was issued, otherwise, the combination tool was used.

However - that sort of 'small arms maintenance' was strictly controlled/observed by the NCO - soldiers of the era weren't encouraged to do it alone.

What civilians did is a mystery (still is) - but it's known that Colt did supply an 'L-Shaped' screwdriver during the era - along with a simple bristle brush, and Smith & Wesson also provided a tool with the Baby Russian.

If you believe that the catalogs came about too late in 'your' time frame - there's a reprint from the 1870's that you can hunt for, but it's not well-illustrated.

You can also look for reprint catalogs from the hardware suppliers of the time - they're available, but they're really comprehensive, because they were supplying the Trade.

Also - it would stand to reason that hardware items just got better along the way, but they would also reference what was available in the past, since there'd be stockpiles still available to sell.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[kurt250]

keep it simple. remember that you had to carry other supplies also. the total of which is the sum of the individual items. carry what you need , not what you would like. the best way to find out what you need is try shooting then cleaning with you kit. then try again to shoot. do this several times until you find what works best. gotzguns

[Roscoe Coles]

Here is a picture of my period cleaning kit.  Its not quite done yet, I need another tin to put patches and rifle/pistol brushes in and I am looking for a period bottle to hold oil.  All the shotgun stuff is original, I have a rosewood rod at the ranch which I will switch out when I find it.  The pistol rod is a current production item and the jointed rod, is from a repro 1885.  It normally resides in the trap of my 1876.  I'm looking for another jointed rifle rod to go with this kit.  Everything goes into the bag the rods are laying on (there are pockets to hold everything).  It does not weigh much and with a swatch of cotton left over from making shirts for patching it will do all the cleaning I need in a pretty period way.  I give things a good clean when I get home, but this will keep me going for an entire weekend.

[kurt250]

very good, now try it all out and see how it works.if there is something you see that you never or seldom use, remove from kit. also try to use items for various duty. kurt250

[Roscoe Coles]

Thanks but my goal is not to have the lightest cleaning kit possible, though this is plenty light, its to be able to take care of the guns I use in a period fashion at period events.  I have much more intense equipment for use at home.  I'll add a few things as I need them but I won't take much out.

The point of my post was that its possible, with not much effort, space or weight to take everything you need to clean your guns in a period fashion.  With this kit I can leave all my farb stuff at home.  And that my friend, saves weight and space.