Linen thread - size, make, etc???

[Flinch Morningwood]

I have not been happy with the visibility of my stitching on some recent projects.  The white thread I have been using (From Tandy) just doesn't seem to be what I want.

How period correct is visible stitching?

I have read some stuff on Barbour's linen thread but (a) don't know where to buy it and (b) would like some recomendations on thread size.

What is the feeling on what is best (for you) and why...

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks.

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,

If you look in the book "Packing Iron", you will see that visible stitching is quite correct for holsters, belts, etc.  The stitching used in the 1870's tends to have smaller thread and more stitches per inch than later leather.

The problem with the linen thread used on these old rigs is that it tends to deteriorate rapidly with time.  The best linen thread was English "tarred" linen thread.  While I understand this stuff is available, if you search hard enough, the durability still isn't up there with modern synthetics.  Also, the close-spaced thread (usually 9-10 stitches per inch), tends to weaken the seams, so that many old holsters will unzip like the perforated edges on postage stamps!

I prefer to use slightly heavier synthetic (nylon or polyester) thread, and slightly longer stitches (6-1/2 to 7-1/2 stitches per inch, which is easy to mark on the leather with the "overstitch wheel" tools available from Tandy/Leather Factory stores.

I use waxed polyester thread made by Stewart Mfg. Co., Northboro, MA 01532 for hand stitching with the "Speedy Stitcher" hand tools.  For main holster seams, I use "Coarse No. 150" waxed polyesther thread.  For lighter thread I use Stewart's "Fine No. 170" waxed polyester thread.  The only "problem" with waxed thread is that it is difficult to dye it if you want to.  But the cream-color makes a nice contrast to darker leather.  I'm not sure if Tandy is selling the Stewart thread; I usually buy it from a local leather shop that stocks it.

For my production work on holster belt loops and sewing cartridge loops on belts, etc., I use nylon thread on my Juki industrial sewing machine.  The nylon thread comes unwaxed, and I have to wax the thread wound on the machine's bobbins, which is messy, but necessary.  For belt loops, I use #277 thread, which is similar to Stewart's Coarse #150, and both are equivalent to MIL-SPEC "4-cord" threads.  For cartridge loops and other finer work, I use #207 nylon thread, which is equivalent to Stewart's Fine #170 and also equivalent to MIL-SPEC 3-cord.  If you want finer nylon thread, use #137, which is lighter than #207 and about equivalent to MIL-SPEC "FF".  For even heavier thread, there is #346 equivalent to MIL-SPEC 5-cord.  I occassionally use #138 for the bobbin thread with #207 for sewing linings on the inside of holsters, but do NOT use #346.

Hope this is of some help.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Trailrider summed it up nicely. I learned with flax thread but I haven't seen that for years and now use poly thread.

[Nolan Sackett]

The following observations are based on the idea that there are differences in the way we each make and approach our work - for some of us the way they did it "back then" is of primary importance, not only to understand and appreciate their work, but also as a business concern - my particular clientele, both shooters and collectors, DEMAND the use of original materials and methods as much as possible......with that said:

Barbour's Linen thread is all I use and have used for 45+ years - despite others experiences, I have found that linen thread holds up well over time and well made existing pieces bear that out. Not only is the leather in Packing Iron a good example of many existing pieces from the "Cowboy Period", all sewn with linen (or hemp) thread, but there are thousands of leather goods dating to much earlier (at least back to the early Middle Ages) still in good usable condition and last, but not least, such great leather workers as Al Stohlman used nothing but linen in his many years of working and thousands of pieces he made.
Also my work experience includes having repaired thousands of pieces of leather goods and in most cases it was the poor quality cotton thread often used on cheap leather goods in the late 1800's and early 1900's, not the good quality linen thread that rotted out. And in many cases it  wasn't the stitching, but the leather itself that rotted - this is usually caused by the salt in sweat and not being cared for properly. While I have seen closely spaced stitching on older pieces, on most hand sewn holsters and other gun leathers the spacing was 6-8 SPI (lots of goods from that period were in fact machine stitched and this is when you tend to run across the closer stitching - this observation is based on looking at and handling at least a couple of thousand original pieces). Finally, in my own work I generally use 6 SPI and have had, but one holster returned due to a break in stitching, but I continue to field test and stay in contact with my customers whenever possible.

You can buy Barbour's from:
Mid Continent Leather Sales Company
11150 S 265TH E AVE
Coweta, OK 74429
(918) 486-2900
(800) 926-2061
http://www.midcontinentleather.com/
It runs about $50.00 for a 1 lb spool, but that is really cheap when compared to other sources. I generally use 5 cord for holster main seams and such.......A 1 lb spool of 5 Cord is 1076 yards of thread.......

The twist doesn't matter for handsewing and you can pre-dye it if you choose, I dunk the whole spool in a tub of light brown and let dry. If you want darker thread you can pre-dye individual lengths.

For "waxing" I use a variation of the shoemakers "hand" wax - a mix of beeswax and rosin - I melt the two together in a 60/40 ratio of wax to rosin - to melt use an old crockpot or other flame less source for safety sake. Once combined I pour off, into used yogurt containers (about a 1/3 full) and let cool - once cool cut away the container and you have a perfectly sized "ball" to work with. Other makers I know who use a similar mix, pour it into a pot of cold water and work it into a ball as it cools. The rosin I use is "Brewers Pitch" from James Townsend and Sons http://www.jastown.com/bulk/bp-293.htm
The rosin not only makes the wax stickier so that the stitches lock tighter, but it along with the wax, add anti-bacterial/fungal benefits.

As always others mileage will vary...........and different strokes, etc.............

BTW - Marshall Will I haven't forgotten about the Vinegaroon post or one to help with photos - I'm just up to my eyeballs with work right now - on the bench are:
5 full carved holster
1 stamped holster
3 gun belts
a pair of carved and silver mounted spur straps
and three custom knives and sheaths
and that's just for this coming week........

[Slowhand Bob]

Little Al, I agree with Nolan but uhhh I do like the pre waxed linen thread anyhows.  For a great tutorial on Nolans sewing techniques you can get an up close look on his DVD lessons.  Truth is, there are several great videos out now that all offer a little too a lot for the holster maker.  If you do not mind, give us the particulars on your problems with the Tandy thread.  The great thing about this format is what can be learned from each others experiences and opinions.