AJs brass, EPPs boolit & my trigger finger. . . A report.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ok, so I can't shoot worth a hoot.  Here's the first group of the new EPP UG 45-147 boolit and the equally new 45 Cowboy Special brass.  I hadn't time to clean my ROAs since "Fire in the Hills", so I shot the test with a dirty gun.  Big Lube™ bullets allow for this.

I shot the group in the photo from a sandbag rest at 20 yards.  The Ohler 33 graph gave me a 685fps average with a 5fps SD.  I wonder what they would do in a clean gun?  That will happen later, but I wanted to get this report on the wire.

DD-DLoS

[Adirondack Jack]

Now that's a good load ya got there, DD.

With the few EPP sample bullets ya sent me to try, I didn't get quite as much chance to refine a BP load (I think I was a little too light at 18 grains of Goex FFG for the best accuracy, but they still shot well offhand at 12 yards, though I had a flyer I'm not sure wasn't me rather than the bullet.  Even with the flyer, I still got a 1 1/2 inch group at a fairly generous 12 yard CAS distance.

With 18 grains (volume) of 777 I got a very tight 750 fps or so, and a 1 inch group, also shot offhand.

With smokeless, using 5.0 grains of 700X, I got a ONE HOLE group at a little over 800 fps.  That load could undoubtedly be tuned downward some if someone was so inclined, as cases came back pretty durn clean, which indicates sufficiient pressure for a real good burn.

On that note, even the BP cases came back with NO soot below the level of the bullet base, which bodes well for guns running all day



Now all of these loads are exceptionally soft shooting, but still SOUND LIKE a .45 and not a popgun.

This combination works so well together, essentially because the bullet weight and case capacity are BOTH scaled back.


compare the 200 grain lee bullet in .45 Colt vs the EPP/DD 147 grainer in Cowboy .45 Special

I'm waiting for the EPP/DD 147 mold.  It's gonna be a honey in the Cowboy .45 Special.


Good job, DD

[Silver Creek Slim]

DD,
For inquiring minds, how much powder did you use and what granulation?

Slim

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Slim,

I was runnin' 1.3cc of FFFg Goex.  It was compressed, but not compacted with any real pressure.  The bullet/powder/case combination seems to give great efficency and consistancy.  This one won't be a fussy feeder.

I've got some J/P 45-200s loaded up and  ready to test.  I used 1cc of FFFg under them in AJs 45 Cowboy Special cases.

DD-DLoS

[Adirondack Jack]

I did a little practicing the other day with 200s, loaded to about the same velocity as the BP rounds (but using heathen powder so I can practice and not clean guns) and found that I could run em duelist style a LOT better than my old Colt loads that tended to torque the gun in the hand, etc. (which is why I went back to two hands, but they were 250s at 730 or so)

FC-D is my next category, and with the EPP/UG bullet, should be MUCH easier

[Dick Dastardly]

Ooops, I'm embarrased to say. . . . .

My first data was in error.  I got my cylinders mixed up and shot the J/P 45-200s.  This afternoon I finally got around to shooting the EPP-UG-45-147s.  Sorry about that.

Round 1 - 825 fps
Round 2 - 847 fps
Round 3 - 847 fps
Round 4 - 841 fps
Round 5 - 846 fps

The first round was out of a clean barrel.  That could explain the slight difference in velocities.  But, my ES was only 22 fps, my average was 841 fps annnd. . . . here's the kicker. . . . my SD, even with the first round figured in, was only 9 fps.  You can do the math if we disregard, as I think would be allowable, the first round.  The SD would be under 2fps!!!!

Ok, the target had one flyer - high and one inch out.  The other four rounds went into one ragged hole.  Photos to follow.  It's to dark to take pictures now.

My powder charge of Holy Black FFFg was 1.3cc.  Recoil was pleasant, quick and recovery easy.  The gun used is a ROA 7.5" with a Kirst Konverter cylinder.

Ok, so here's ammo that's relatively fast, accurate, easy to load, consistant and, did I say ACCURATE?  Recoil is very manageable and even new shooters would not be intimidated by shooting a big bore 45 with it.  Do I sound excited???

I'm buyin' 25 Six cavity molds from LEE.  First come, first served.

DD-DLoS

[Adirondack Jack]

He he.  So the old man not only can't shoot but can't see 

Just funnin' ya pard.  It is a real neat experience to trip the trigger on the EPP/UG rounds and watch the one ragged hole grow ever so slightly before yer eyes, and I do mean before yer eyes.  There's so little muzzle flip ya can see the hole grow in the target.  I'm pshyched about running these, because I think with this load I can conquer FC duelist  for next year.(I got a lousy elbow that easily gets into "tennis elbow" shooting duelist if the recoil is too much).

Oh, put me at the top of that EPP/UG 147 list.  Ya wanna bit of gold dust now to prime the pump, or are ya fronting the dough fer this shindig?

[Dick Dastardly]

I'm fronting 'em Jack.  It's a piece of change, but I won't get stuck with any.  These could prove to be my all time best sellers.  I've got a good size chunk of my 401K sittin' on the shelf now.  I like being able to fill orders from invintory.

FWIW, I've had questions about running the EPP-UG-45-147 in Colt 1911s. . .

DD-DLoS

[Dick Dastardly]

I took another look at AJs posts and something is becoming obvious to me.  The combination of 45 Spl brass and EPP-UG-45-200 seems to shoot accurately with most loads.  But, when velocities approach 800+ fps the groups shrink even further.  This is based on very limited testing due to the availability of projectiles in existance.

Jack shot his very tight group at very near to 800+ fps and my best group was at 841 fps average.  I was shootn' a 7-1/2" ROA with a Kirst Konverter and the longer tube could deliver that much more speed.  Also, I was shootn' FFFg Holy Black and that particular load seems to like it.  So, it looks like this is a light recoiling load that likes to get on down the trail.  The benefit will be that it will deliver great CLANGS from steel and knockdowns won't be a problem.

Hang on to them big 45s pards, yer goin' to need 'em.

DD-DLoS

[Adirondack Jack]

Yeah, this bullet reminds me so much of the match grade airgun pellets I used to shoot in the Gamo Compact Pistol.  The relatively short, yet nose heavy bullet, but still having a generous span from base to front driving band is a winner in terms of accuracy.    It does better than many at 600, excellent at 700, and superb in the 800+ range.  The design enhances perfect obduration and flies like a classic shuttlecock.

I can't wait to do some terminal performance testing.  I expect that aside from a very accurate target round, we've got ourselves a great little pest control bullet.  The "spool shaped" body with the big lube groove, when cast soft, lends itself to folding into a classic mushroom quite readily, as the one sample taken from the green birch tree showed me.  I suspect THIS is what folks are wondering about in the 1911, and would be a neat round for a multitude of uses.



This was a round that tripped the screens at 825 or so.  Imagine it at 1100?

[sundance44`s]

Ya`ll done got a whole lots of thinking going on in me head .. this little 45 might have somethin to recon with .

[Dick Dastardly]

It helps to know where ol El Paso Pete was goin' with his design.  It was initially intended to bring 44 Cal round ball performance to C&B guns with a Big Lube™ bullet.  Pete's thinkn' was that there were a good many pards out there that were shootn' big bore front stuffers and a good many more that would if it wern't for all the mess and bother of wads, grease and on site lubing whilst loading.

He'd seen my DD/ROA-45-210 and wanted something more in the neighborhood of the original round ball in performance.  So, he took the ball and ran with it, pun intended.  The result is the EPP-UG-45-147.  Well, it didn't quite work out the way Pete intended.  It stuck out a bit too far to clear the frame on the 44 he intended to use it in.  Then, he got to playin' around with loadin' it in 45 Colt brass as a "gamer" load.  SUCCESS!  Much like the DD/ROA, it performed great in cartridge guns.

Pete's gone now.  But his design lives on.  AJs new brass makes it even better.  Also, when using a cylinder loading stand, the bullet works in front stuffers.  I've ordered 25 of the molds from LEE.  They will be Six cavity Professional molds.  As soon as they are in invintory I'll make an announcement.

DD-DLoS

[SFT]

I'm glad this subject has generated so much interest, as well as ideas and inovations.  AJ worked real hard and invested quite a bit of his own money developing this new brass, and that shows me that he's got a lot of guts.  I think El Paso Pete would have been proud that his bullet design has gained some recognition and more usefullness as well.

I shot with the Texican Rangers in Fredericksberg this past weekend, with the .45 special in my pistols exclusively, and I'm impressed with every shot. I can also say that now that the brass is once loaded  it's standing up real well, so I think I'm going to get a good number of reloads before I need new cases.  So far they've all been loaded with 4 grains of either Trailboss or Clay's, but this time around will be Triple 7, and I'll post the field report afterwards.

[Adirondack Jack]

Thanks for the kind words, SFT.

In those moments when I wonder "what the heck did I do this for?"

I take heart in knowing this:



Folks all over the country, almost none of whom I ever met, have given me the faith of THEIR MONEY to try a product they have never seen, based solely on my word and the reports coming in from "early adoptors".  Well over 20,000 rounds down the road to date, and many inquiries per week from across the country and the world.

I am humbled by the men such as Dick Dastardly and Spur who have collaborated with their own products that "fit" the Cowboy .45 Special so well, and the efforts they have put forth on my behalf.  They are pards of the first order, and I have never set eyes on either one of em, only know em through the wizardry of the web and email.

At the repeated urging of some, I wrote up the story of this collaborative work and submitted it to the chronicle.  Dunno what they'll do with it, but I guess it is newsworthy.

Today I received a few sample BIG LUBE bullets of various weights from DD, and expect to do some more research once our NYS shoot (this week is our big one, my home club hosts the shoot, so a lotta work there) is over.

Well, off to the post office.

Later,

<<Jack>>