It sure is quiet around here

[Black River Smith]

Del,

Your discussion and points have been very thought provoking up to this point.  I have had to put time into providing my responses and I like that.  But now, do not fall back on your old comments, trying to make people feel guilty about their lack of social service.  This whole discussion centers around the rules and by-laws that govern NCOWS members and none of those rules require social work in order to participate.  I am not playing this game to educate the masses that are not the least bit interested in the shooting sport of CAS.  (As several postings go you cannot sway peoples decisions easily,  They must desire to see the truth first.)  But I would be happy to talk to anyone that shows an interest in my hobby.  I am here in NCOWS for my entertainment.  Yes, SASS claimed in its early days that it was interested in getting more of the public interested in shooting.  That was a marketing statement.  

I also find it nice that other members like Trap and Books and Dr. Bob are teaching / or have taught the public.  But public presentations are not a requirement for membership or participation in NCOWS.  Public presentation are not necessary for personal understanding of the period.  Yes I agree that questions, from several different people, would bring out new ideas and items to research and would broaden each of our limited realm of knowledge.  But that is what talking around the campfire and the comradre is all about, wouldn't you agree.  But that requires time and desire to do those things.

Also public presentations do not and total knowledge does not affect us as members and if it should, in your perspective, then think of the division or limitation it will create when accepting new members or allowing people to shoot in the Originals.  Here is the question we would have to ask every new applicant.   "Do you know everything that happend in the time frame of 1865 - 1899 & every product that was available?"  "And can you provide the correct answer to any question immediately from memory?"   Answer:  "Well NO.  Is this important if I wear appropriate attire and shoot approved gun?"   "Some members claim it is but it is not offically in our rules, but that is another story.  So any way, you can't play until you do."   Now that is one deeeep division I would say.  The Originals class already requires 3 separate evaluations, that is 3 perspectives, whether proposed items fall within proposed time frame.  That to me is a large enough knowledge base.

Nor, do the rules state that you must become a promoter after membership begins.  But if you are going to promote NCOWS you had better be positive and supportive of the rule and guidelines the membership approve.

[Cuts Crooked]

..and to think, this is how this all got started!

The buzzards ain't even squawkin'.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

All,

I am looking forward to participating next year as much as time allows. By then many of the issues detailed on this thread will, hopefully, have abated. I am a supporter of the Originals philosophy and very much into the historical aspect of old west activities. I look forward to visiting with NCOWS members of all types at my little camp in the future.

It's good so many opinions can coexist in a group, discussion can flow and that I can hold to my values without fear of having to change them. This can be said for all.

YMH&OS,

'Monterrey' J. Brass

[Delmonico]

BRS, I belive you are one who always comments how the masses have no idea as to what the "Old West" was really like, if I'm wrong I'm sorry.  But have you done anything on a regular basis to change that?  An "originals" perrsona would do a lot in a public venue to add to the knowledge of the general public, why waste it on just a few who have most of the knowledge, at the range? 

I say it should be a rule in jest, but I still can't see why anyone would not want to unless they are not that comfertable with their personna.  The rewards are greater than most imagine.

[Black River Smith]

Del,

I think most of us fit into that category that believes that the masses do not know the real Old West.  For one the ratio of SASS/NCOWS versus overall population in US would be a small number.

The fact that the # of western movies made from 1950 to present has decreased enough to indicate a lose of interest by the overall masses.

I agree that those individual that participate in the Original could put on a great show.  But it is not necessary.  Remember one thing we all pay dues to play this game.  I do what make me happy just as the club and members that are stating they are leaving.  Everything we do is based on choice.

RCJ won the first two Original events.  He chose to not participate at the Nationals.  OK, no problem.

I know where my limitations lie,  I have no guilt feels, as you continue to try an bring up.  I know I can and wll try to improve now and alway.  I also know that some like Dr. Bob & OCB know more about clothing than I.  But I am will to Talk, Listen and Learn.

Right now my main interest has been to indicate to the public, in this public forum, that the perceived divisions and problems within NCOWS, that are being presented by digruntled individual, are only that, Perceptions.  They are not based on real rules or regulation definited by NCOWS for the governing of NCOWS.  The statements presented in this pulic forum have obviously not been correct concerning voting decisions nor based on defined rules.

Editted:  It was too early for this.

[Terry Lane]

BRS and all,
from the by-laws "Resolved, that the National Congress of Old West Shootists is a not-for-profit living history and shooting organization formed of individuals and affiliated member units to promote interest in the period of American History known as the "Old West," specifically the period from 1865 to 1899. (All NCOWS rules and regulations are subject to all applicable Federal, State and Local laws.)"

The emphasis is mine. I guess I take that to mean the general public, not just sitting around the campfire with others of already like interests (like all CAS boards) holding hands and singing Kum-Bah-Yah. Take care.

[Delmonico]

Myself as most know, always thought that doing more than just dressing up and shooting some iron targets was the REAL differance between SASS and NCOWS, but latley I guess I'm not so sure. 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Well........,
I wasn't gonna comment any further on this but I'm gonna jump in here and I hope that you all will take this in the way I hope you will and not in an advasary meaning.

For most of my adult life I've been a living historian (for those that don't know the meaning, look it up!). I've done so many public demonstrations that I can't count them, from grade schools all the way to the college level with presentations & siminars to some of the leading schools in America, most of this from the Native American aspect, because to me that is the most relevant

I've been doing native american craft demonstrations, dance demonstrations since I was six years old. Does this make me an expert? absolutely NOT. As far as I'm concerned there are no experts....the only true experts have been dead for over a 150 years....But, that said, I don't need someone half my age telling me what I should be doing with the knowledge I do have. I personally know what is needed and for the most part do it in my own way, most often on my own time.

Hell, for a long time we used to travel the country doing just what is talked about here on this post..........but, at some point in your life it gets tiresome especially when you get the same old idiotic questions & snide remarks ( always by adults who should know better & very seldom by children) about Tonto or Cochise, over and over. I will endeavor to promote NCOWS in a positive light, just don't tell me how you think I should do it.

Bill

[gw]

Well pards, we'll all get a chance to promote both NCOWS and the Old West at the same time at the NRA Convention. Far as I know, and OCB can confirm this, we can utilize every member who can make it there and put both ourselves and our knowledge to good use! Win-Win for us.

[Black River Smith]

Terry,

When the general public comes to an NCOWS match I will do my best to promote 'the interest'.  As I stated I will talk to anyone that is interested in my hobby.  You must remember reading that in one of my earlier postings.  But that statement you quote is the Preamble.  It is the mission of the club in general.  It is not the rules or regulation for being in or participating within a class.    My specific comments have been addressing Del statements about internal division.

The Preamble as a mission statement is followed by all members.  To me the words 'promote interest' is achieved by attending events in correct attire and utilizing equipment from the period.  But it is not adhered to by those who do not understand the words that follow the Promote interest.  Those word are ""in the period of American History known at the "Old West," specifically the period from 1865 to 1899"".    I think you would agree that if an individual came to a match wearing Shorts; a Hawiian Shirt; and (Dels) Atheletic Shoes that he would not be Promoting interest in the period of 1866 - 1899. Right?    And that is the way I interpret the wording Promote interest in.....  The short stoke kit nor the shotgun slides Promote that time period either.


As I stated above the preamble does not define the rules and regulations for membership.  Also no where in the rest of the by-laws text does it state that X number of hours are required for public service like Del believes we should do.  But if he wishes to see it made official, he can put it to a membership vote jsut like any other modification.

To the general public reading this:::   Those items, the following of the rules and regulation properly, are what started these comments.  I am sorry but I cannot just allow ex-members make wild unfounded accusation, on the pulic forum, that the rules and regulations are not followed.
But, I also find it appalling that members must defend this club and that ex-members find so easy and desirable to make negative comments. 

But those are the rules of business.  More people will hear and remember the negative stuff said than they will the good.

Editted:  You come on here defending Del statements about public presentations (non-shooting events) indicating that they are/or should be an important part of NCOWS.  Something that both you and Del do on a daily basis.  But yet you quit NCOWS and join up with NTR.  A club that has clearly stated that its emphasis is strictly shooting.  This has me confused as to your purpose.  Pick a side of the fence, any side.

PS: This is my last.  I am not conceeding but I am tired of repeating myself.  People will not be swayed even though clear evidence against their negative, incorrect and dorragatory comments has been provided.  You are here for one purpose and one purpose only.  You have made your own decisions.


Editted at 7:50

[Irish Dave]

Nice try, GW. 

********

not just sitting around the campfire with others of already like interests (like all CAS boards) holding hands and singing Kum-Bah-Yah.

Terry:
I never hold hands.....

[Dr. Bob]

So Terry, you prouldy inform us that you have dropped you NCOWS membershi, quit one NCOWS posse and joined NTR that has removed all NCOWS references from it's range & printed materials.

Then you presume to tell us how to properly carry out the mission of the organization that you quit.  I'll have to give you credit for having a lot of nerve.  You didn't get what ever it is that you wanted and now you are trying  to tear down an organization that you no longer belong to.  Rather an imature attitude!

[Trinity]

I didn't really read that post as a condemnation of the organization.  Hmm.  Maybe I should look at it again.

[French Jack]

In all fairness to Terry, I didn't read that either in his post.  I suspect that he found himself in an uncomfortable and perhaps untenable position with two posses and his business.  I expect that he resolved it in the only way he felt was workable at this time. 

i wish you well, Terry.  Come back and see us when you get the kinks worked out.

Del:  Like OCB, I have spent a large part of the past thirty or more years involved in reenactments and some living history events.  The difference is that in this part of the country, the local history goes back more than a hundred years earlier than it does where you are.  The emphasis is consequently rooted in that earlier time frame.  Same, yet not the same.


OO, from your comments, I believe that you are dropping your membership.  I wish you a good farewell.  Life is too short to stay where you don't want to be or be involved in organizations that do not meet your needs.  There is a BIG, WIDE world out there.  Enjoy.

[Delmonico]

My comments were only addressed at those who haven't and won't even give it a try, if the shoe don't fit, don't wear it, it will give you blisters.

[Terry Lane]

For all,
I was not criticizing NCOWS as a whole just some members who do not embrace the entire concept of "promoting" the old west and wish to rag on those who do.

For all, I didn't quit one club to join another, we simply dropped membership in one club whose membership requirements we no longer meet. Holly and I have been active members of NTR for 8 years or more. We are also active members of one other club here in Nebraska, two clubs in Wyoming and a club in Oklahoma. We shoot at those venues and actively promote all of them to the general public with all forms of media coverage. Believe it or not, the media loves to interview me and photograph me everywhere I appear nationwide.

For BLR don't try to guess my motivation. It obviously isn't the same as yours.

For French Jack and all, don't worry, I'll still be around.

Take care.

   

[Will Ketchum]

Well I think we have beat this horse more than long enough.

Time to lock it and move on.

Will Ketchum