Finally! Range test old 56-56.

[Highpower]

Okay, Mr. O'Harra ( Thanks ) sent me some ammo to try in this old 1860. Loaded from magazine perfect! Just like it was made to. Fired at 50yds,group was windage centered. First round hit center, 2 went 4' high, 3rd center, 4th 4" low, etc.  At 100 yds hit 8" low.
Now, it was 30 out and windy, and my eyes were watering, so I know it will hold closer . SO. Now I am ready to get loading my own.
Need specific's on which brass to buy for correct length. I do not cast, so need address of someone who makes bullets for 56-56 ?
Thanks for the help!  PS forgot what a pain they are to clean!

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Thats gonna be a expensive rifle if you have to order ammo at $80/50 rounds...

As far as custom bullets, well, if you contact a local caster, you might be able to find someone who could cut you a deal. (they might have the setup for using single cavity moulds.

You MIGHT be able to start off with a muzzle loader round, like a minie and go from there.

How did you go about getting 56-56 brass and bullets in  the first place? And rimfire no less...
Was this the centerfire ammo that uses 22lr?

I BELIEVE you can get specific brass by cutting down 50-70 and such...

I leave it to the more experienced members of this forum to chime in with helpful information.

[Highpower]

Sorry, meant to say a centerfire conversion. The fired brass is stamped BELL 50-70 GOVT. Just looking for a place to purchase the brass and I think .534 dia. bullets! I see it would be much easier with a .50.  Thanks

[French Jack]

You can find all the necessary components plus dies at www.buffaloarms.com

[Bead Swinger]

Highpower -
I've got a Rapine 56-56 mold, and can cast rounds for you if you want.  They come in at 379 gr. +/- I'm not that good at alloys, so right now my cast is pretty close to wheel-weight in hardness. I use a 56-56 die that goes with the bullet, but I don't remember where I got it. 50-70 dies work fine too, as I recall.

Brass is a different story - The best I have are hand-crafted from 50-70s, and were a LOT of work.  The Starline 56-50 are very pretty, but too long for the bullet (haven't trimmed them yet) and they don't extract well.  I'm experimenting with soldering a very small wire loop onto the rim so they'll extract.  We'll see if they work.

'Gotta love the old girls.
Bead Swinger

[Trailrider]

Highpower -
I've got a Rapine 56-56 mold, and can cast rounds for you if you want.  They come in at 379 gr. +/- I'm not that good at alloys, so right now my cast is pretty close to wheel-weight in hardness. I use a 56-56 die that goes with the bullet, but I don't remember where I got it. 50-70 dies work fine too, as I recall.

Brass is a different story - The best I have are hand-crafted from 50-70s, and were a LOT of work.  The Starline 56-50 are very pretty, but too long for the bullet (haven't trimmed them yet) and they don't extract well.  I'm experimenting with soldering a very small wire loop onto the rim so they'll extract.  We'll see if they work.

'Gotta love the old girls.
Bead Swinger

Howdy, Pards,

The following are from my notes when I started reloading for the M1860 .56-.56 original carbine some years back:

I used the old Dixie Gun Works .50-70 brass (B.E.L.L cases also work).  The rims on the DGW & B.E.L.L. brass were a bit too large to fit between the receiver sides.

I made a madrel from a .500" dia. metal expansion bolt.  The case is fitted over the bolt and the screw tightened.  The stem of the screw is then chucked up in either a lathe, drill press or hand drill.

1) Reduce the rim diameter to .643-.645" dia.  Deburr the front and rear corners of the rim with a file, LIGHTLY.

2) Trim case length to .998-1.002 & deburr case mouth.

3) Full-length resize in a .50-70 sizer die, reducing the O.D. of the shortened case to .550-.552" dia.  Wall thickness of the case will be approx. .020" at the new case mouth.

4) For use with a heel bullet, anneal case from the mouth to approximately HALF-WAY down to the head, NO MORE!

5) For use with a cylindrical, "inside" lubed bullet, the inside of the case must be reamed out to .525" dia. to a depth slightly deeper than the part of the bullet that will fit inside.  This will require a special reamer, unfortunately.  The reamer should have a shallowly sloped taper on the very end so as to cut a taper transition between the straight portion and the inside of the lower portion of the case.  This should produce a .0125-.0135" thick wall at the mouth.

6) Expand the inside of the case with an expander plug that is .003-.005" SMALLER than the bullet dia.  (Huntington Die Specialties recommended this interference. For a .535" dia. bullet, use a .528" dia. expander plug, etc.

Annealing: The following worked for me...

Use a plastic lazy susan, a pot about 6-inches in dia. and capable of holding water over 3-inches deep; and a 2-inch dia. plastic pill bottle. 

Fill the pill bottle with water and a couple of bullets to keep it from floating and place in the center of the pan.

Place a DECAPPED cartridge case on top of the pill bottle.

Fill the pot with water so the water comes about half-way up the side of the case.  Be SURE the water level inside the case is equal with the outside level.

Use a propane torch and heat the case for a distance of about 1/2" down from the mouth, rotating the lazy susan, pot and the case.  Heat until the case turns dark (it probably won't turn cherry red as most folks recommend, but turning dark in normal shop light should be sufficient).

Quickly knock the case off the top of the pill bottle, into the water to quench in the anneal.

I don't know what bullets are currently available, but Rapine made a mould #546390 which produced a .545" dia. bullet using Lyman #2 alloy, which was then sized .540".  The bullet was then seated and crimped, and then run into a .50-70 sizer die backed off quite a bit to reduce the cartridge dia. at the mouth.

A better choice proved to be the Rapine #535400, which produced a .538" dia. bullet which was sized .535".  Even better was the now out-of-production Lyman #535476AX hollow base bullet, which weighed 411 gr.

NOTE: THESE PROCEDURES WERE DEVELOPED ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO!  I CANNOT RECOMMEND SHOOTING ANY OF THESE OLD ORIGINAL RIFLES ANY LONGER AS THEY ARE NOW ABOUT 146 YEARS OLD!  SHOULD YOU ELECT TO SHOOT YOUR GUN ANYWAY, BE SURE TO HAVE IT CAREFULLY EXAMINED FOR ANY SIGNS OF CRACKS, ETC.!  I CAN ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ACCIDENTS OR INCIDENTS RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION.  IT IS FOR ACADEMIC INFORMATION ONLY!

Interestingly, I found that medium-hard bullets produced better accuracy than very soft pure lead!  Another interesting fact I gleaned from checking several M1860 carbines (with the 6-land & groove barrels), was that the groove dia. TAPERS! from the breech to the muzzle, with the rifling .545" just ahead of the chamber, tapering to .535" at the muzzle!

Interestingly, the WATER CAPACITY of the brass cases with these bullets seated in them runs very close to that of the .45LC!  In addition, the RELATIVE SECTIONAL DENSITY (RSD)...the bullet weight divided by 7000 x the square of the bullet diameter of the bullets described above are very close to the RSD of the heavier .45 LC bullet weights (411 gr .535" equivalent to 300 gr. 452").

A full case, slightly compressed of Pyrodex "P" produced about 800 ft/sec at 45 deg. F., at 5400 ft above sea level.

This similarity of characteristics suggests some interesting possibilities for duplicating ORIGINAL ballistics using medium to slow-burning pistol smokeless powders, but ONLY IN A MODERN REPRODUCTION WITH MODERN STEELS!  Velocities would run in the 900 ft/sec range or slightly under. 

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANY SPENCER, EVEN A MODERN REPRO BE HEATED UP PAST ABOUT 1000 FT/SEC FOR THE .56-50 AND 900 FT/SEC WITH THE .56-56!  Accuracy with the Spencer was not considered great, although I've gotten 3-1/2 to 5" groups at 50 yds., which isn't bad with the crude sights and my old eyeballs.

Remember, the Spencer was a Civil War "a----lt" rifle! It was intended for shock at short ranges, and that's what it proved to be an excellent arm.

BE CAREFUL!

[Two Flints]

Trailrider,

Great post and thanks for the information!

Two Flints