Can this possibly be true?

[tarheel mac]

(Not sure if this is where this belongs, but it does seem to be of historical interest...but the Powers That Be around here are fee to relocate if they feel it necnessary..not that they need my permisson... )

I've been rumors for a while that our neighbors to the north and to the south are great places to locate old guns from our period.  For an example, accoring to the rumor, Mexico is a treasure trove of 1st generation Colts, Winchester '73s and pre WWI model 94s.   Likewise, Canada is good source for '76 Winnies...in .45-75....(this was the issue rifle for the Mounties for a while apparently...)

Now this mostly sounds like "pie-in-the-sky" to me...But I am curious if any of you fellers have heard the same thing, or can confirm or refute these rumors...I had a girlfriend recently who parents were Mexican and she said the stories about Mexico were pretty much true..but then she thought a Colt was a baby horse...(This is an ex-girlfriend now...so I can't get get any further info..)

so anyone know anything besides the rumors? Or this just one of those nice dreams we have, finding a cache of Old West guns cheap?

St. George, this seems right up your alley...I'm counting on you to solve this...

[Major 2]

You did not asked me... But  I could tell you horror stories about a pard and his money parted, dealing in a Mexican boarder town for a pistola...

And Federales , two nights in a Mexican Jail and strip search is involved ... He was not doing anything, but following up on a lead for a old revolver.

Come to think of it ....it would be a good screen play !

Canada... well maybe,  but the red tape cost , I'm thinking would negate any bargains...

[tarheel mac]

Well I was just asking anyone with some solid info..which you seem to have...but what you said sort confirms,more or less, what I suspected...Mexico can be just as tough on suspected lawbreakers as on proven ones..and Canada, with it's anti-gun bias would be real relunctant to allow any of the crazy Americans to get their hands on any of their guns....

anybody else with info?

[St. George]

Alas - it hasn't been true for several decades.

At one dime - in the distant past - all manner of Old West weaponry could be found in Old Mexico - Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton wrote quite a few stories about it - but that was then and this is now.

Soon after those stories were printed - the 'bigger' gun dealers literally scoured the Mexican countryside - going ever deeper and further South in pursuit of those treasures - armed with fat bank accounts to help in their hunt.

Canada never was a big source - and their border was buttoned up a helluva lot faster than was Mexico's - but in short - yeah - that sort of thing 'was' once available - but dried up in the mid 1960's.

Sorry 'bout that...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Forty Rod]

Don't know about Mexico and Canada, but I used to know a guy who was in Ecuador when his daddy was with the diplomatic corps.  He came back in 1979 with three lovely '73 Winchesters in .44-40 (24" octagonal with a set trigger, 20" round, 16" round) and a pair of '75 Remingtons.  All of the guns were used but in excellent shape.  He told me of many others, but said the ones you found in the hands of "everyday people" were real junkers for the most part...heavily used, handed down through the years, poorly maintained, home-made repairs with improper parts, etc.

That's been 25 years ago.  Don't know how it is now.

[Big Hext]

Now and then, we'll get a nice one out of Mexico.  By and large, the guns that are left are rough, very rough.

Adios,

[Pitspitr]

I bought some gun parts (no where near enough to assemble a complete gun) off e-bay from Canada. They were shipped but never arrived. Be very careful about buying anythiing from Canada.

[gw]

Ahhh, the allure of finding a cool old West gun in some remote and exotic place! Have to admit, it has the makin's of one mighty fine daydream though. It's one of those ideas that both fasinate and frustrate me at the same time. First place, I have no intention of leavin' the good 'ol USA for darn near any reason, let alone searchin' for great old gun deals, to say nothing of tryin' to get those items legally into this country. Second is, will I ever have the time to actually do it? Not a chance! Heck, I can't even get to all the things I want to do now, let alone run off to some distant country in search of the holy grail!   Still, there's that dream firmly planted in the back of our minds. Guess for me it will always remain as a dream and nothing more, kind of like the exotic(erotic) dreams we all have on occasion. Sooner or later, it all gets real. Walk on...

[St. George]

Being in the Diplomatic Corps - I'd be willing to bet that he didn't 'find' those guns out 'on the economy' -  but that they were 'presented' or 'facilitated' towards his direction as a friendly 'political' gesture.

Folks in 'all' foreign lands are pretty unwilling to discuss 'firearms' with strangers.

The 'finds' as related by Skeeter Skelton and Bill Jordan - were often as a result of mutual contacts within law enforcement circles, since both were highly active Southwestern lawmen, as knew many of their counterparts on the opposite side of the river.

Anything coming up from Old Mexico in today's world invites immediate confiscation on either side - though I'm sure that some stuff is still down there.

Hell - 'some stuff' is still pretty much everywhere - look at the Imperial British cache in Nepal - but it doesn't surface like it once did.

Plus - you have to be very careful, since a lot has been 'doctored' by unscrupulous dealers.

In Nebraska - there are two guys who used to 'shop' in Mexico as a sort of team back then.

They'd detail-strip the guns - assemble 'better' versions and sometimes have 'those' versions deeply engraved and usually silver-plated and fitted with carved Ivories before they'd offer them for sale.

Plating and engraving hides all the pitting, you see...

I never knew that Colt plated the interior of a barrel before I saw those guns - but apparently, folks thought that they did - and bought them - because 'they came out of Mexico...'.

The Mexican Revolution saw a tremendous influx of weaponry from American dealers and from foreign suppliers as well - but once it got into the hands of Villa's 'Dorados' - or was carried for mile after sun-baked, miserable mile with the Rurales - condition is somewhat on the 'thin' side.

As to Canada - there are some good 'hunting' guns up there - big-bore Marlins and such - but they take a dim view of handguns, so anything from 'up North' is smuggled into America and the RCMP is pretty vigorous about checking.

I never had any problems with dealing on anything in Canada - but 'my' contacts are all RCMP/ex-Canadian Airborne guys and they know the rules of shipping odds and ends.
Still - when dealing with eBay sellers - be careful, and look at their profiles.

Someone on the old 'Frontier Spot' seemed to think that there'd be a boatload of Russian Smith & Wessons floating about what with the Fall of Communism and all - just waiting to be plucked by an enterprising American.

An 'enterprising American' can't hold a candle to a Russian who's seen capitalism - believe me...

Any and all of those guns disappeared long ago, in that troubled country, and if there were any left to sell - that newly-capitalistic Russian'd've ferreted them out already.

These are largely tales related in old gun magazines and barbershop magazines like 'Argosy' and 'True' much like all those treasure stories so often seen in the magazines of the late '50's and early '60's that were seen in those same pages.

My advice is this:

If you're going to hunt for 'treasures' - no matter what you think that those 'treasures' might be - tell 'everyone' about your search and interests - since someone, somewhere has a trunk that belonged to an old uncle that still has his 'stuff' in it.
If they think you're a decent human being - they may just tell you about it and offer to sell or even give it to you.

If on the other hand - you come off as predatory and unappreciative - well, then - good luck with your quest...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Forty Rod]

John's dad made him pay full market value (in Ecuador) for his guns, but you're right, they were "steered" in his direction.  I suspect they came out of someone's gun cabinet where they had sat virtually untouched from the day they were bought.

Last time I was in Japan (1973-74) I was teaching a conversational English class in Hiroshima on my own time.  One of my students (and two of his senior secretaries) "was" Blue Seal Dairies for Japan and a large chunk of the rest of the northern Pacific area.  When he found out I was into guns he arranged a tour of the SKB factory and later facilitated a custom stocked 200E for me (delivered through the PX at Iwakuni.  I bought a similar off the shelf 20 gauge for my son.).  Before I left, he took me to his club on the north end of Hokkaido and they gave me an honorary membership.  I still have the engraved bronze "card" someplace and the only thing I can read is my name.  I doubt that could or would happen today.

They owned some really great shotguns and a few rifles, but had to store them in a vault at the club and could only take them out to use them under supervision, and only after notifying the local police in advance.