CAS/SASS legal Remmie conversion cyl.

[J.J. Ferrett]

Dont know if this has been asked before.

Are there any CAS/SASS drop in conversion cylinders for a Remmie 1858? I am not meaning the gated conversion ones, but ones that you can swap between C&B and cartridge.
I have seen some which have 6 chambers and a back plate with the firing pins in it, but, how can one check for an empty chamber on these?

[Dick Dastardly]

This is one that I would invite input from Walt Kirst on.  He makes the finest drop in conversion cylinders I've found.  Also, he is extremely knowledgable on exactly whut works, and whut don't.  You can find him on his web site.  http://www.kirstkonverter.com/

I've never regretted one dime spent on Kirst products.

DD-DLoS

[Silas McFee]

I've got the Kirst only for an ROA.  Been thinking about Remmy 58 for fun, though.  I like the Konverters for that one too.  Walt's a decent guy.

[J.J. Ferrett]

Just looked up the Kirst converter... perfect...
thanks

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

R&D also makes a 'drop in' conversion cylinder for the Remington 1858. I have 2 of them. Unlike the Kirst, with the R&D, you get 6 full sized chambers. The cap that covers the rear of the cylinder has 6 firing pins built in, one for each chamber. It revolves with the cylinder. Five of the firing pins are blued steel, one firing pin is left in the white. The idea is you place the different colored pin over the empty chamber so you know where the empty is. I believe R&D has slightly changed the design recently so that there are also small 'viewin ports' at the rear of the cylinder to allow you to see where the brass is and where the empty chamber is.

The R&D cylinder is designed to be completely interchangeable with the percussion cylinders, so that you can go back and forth between percussion and cartridge at will.

Just a word about 'drop in' parts. As far as cylinders go, there is really no such thing. R&D does a magnificent job of making their cylinders almost completely 'drop in'. But occaisionally, you will encounter a revolver that has to have a cylinder custom fitted to it. By the way, with most brands of revolvers, it is routine to fit the cylinder to the specific gun before it leaves the factory. I would bet that about 95% of the time, the R&D cylinders really do drop right in with no fitting. One of my Remmies, and old EuroArms Remmie that I bought around 1975 or so had to have a cylinder custom fitted to it. I sent it off to Taylors, who is the major distributor for R&D, and they fitted a new R&D cylinder to it. They did not charge me for the fitting, only for the price of the cylinder itself, and I paid to ship it to them. They shipped it back for free.

[Dick Dastardly]

Hey Driftwood,

That's great service.  You will also find that Walt Kirst is a very fine gunsmith.  He custom fit the cylinder for my lil spur trigger Remington .31.  I can't believe how smooth it was when I got it back.

I think it's great to find several companies compeating for business by giving great service.  We all win.

DD-DLoS

[Cincinnati Slim]

Howdy,

I've had experience with both the R&D and the Kirst cylinders. Both companies products are very good. Considering that the prices for these cylinders are as high as the revolvers they are fitted to one would expect high quality !

I ordered a Pietta 1860 from Taylor's and a R&D "drop-in" in .45 Colt. Taylor's said they fitted the cylinder to the gun an I believe it. barrel-cylinder gap was a super tight .003. You have to push the cylinder back against the pawl/hand spring to even get a feeler gage in between the barrel and cylinder. Lock-up was also dead tight. Accuracy was very good and all machine tolerances are super tight. Not all brands of .45 Colt ammo work. Some are too long and stick out the front of the cylinder enough to drag against the barrel. Winchester case rims are too thick and keep the back plate with the firing pins from seating fully. Ultramax "cowboy" loads work great. You have to keep the chambers really clean so the cases will seat completly into the cylinder. One alarming thing is the firing pins burr and "mushroom" from the hammer hits. R&D said this is normal and the firing pins screw in so replacement is easy should there be any problem. Of course the impacts are distributed over 5 separate firing pins which should help extend the life. DO NOT DRY FIRE a R&D cylinder. ALWAYS KEEP "snap caps" in the cylinder when unloaded. This way if the revolver is dry fired no damage will result. If the firing pins get dry fired too many times they can get stuck in the extended position. THIS COULD FIRE A  PRIMER when the cylinder is loaded and placed in the revolver ! 

My next conversion project was a 1858 Pietta Renington I orderd from Cabela's at a very attractive price. I ordered a R&D cylinder from Midway (also at a good price, Midway would not ship a revolver to Cincinnati but the cylinder was OK )
The bold notches on the R&D unit were too narrow for the bolt on my Pietta Remmie. I called R&D and they said Pietta had recently changed the dimentions of the locking bolts on their Remmie clones and they offered to exchange AND FIT a new cylinder to my Remmie. NIce folks and good service !

I wanted to try the ported Kirst however and was in the mood for a little hobby gunsmith project so I sent the R&D back to Midway and got a ported Kirst unit. Four hours and twelve Dremmel sanding drums later I dropped the Kirst into my Remmie and everything worked great. Lock-up and cylinder gap were all good, not as tight as the R&D in the 1860 but quite good !

The only problen I see with the Kirst is that "star" on the back of the cylinder the hand/ratchet engages to turn the cylinder is a different design than the Remington percussion cylinder. It has to be to clear the cartridge case rims. The R&D "drop-in" cylinder, with it's separate backplate is EXACTLY like the Remmie cap&ball unit. Also the firing pin assembly of the Kirst seems more robust but is staked in and not as easily replaced as the R&D design. Based on these observations, if a loading port is not important then I would recomend the R&D unit if a "drop-in" cylinder is what you are looking for. Since Remmie cylinders are SOOO easy to change the loading port is not realy such a big deal. It is actually much faster to swap cylinders than poke cartridges into the gate one at a time !

Both Kirst and R&D are good outfits. Go for it you really can't go wrong either way!

Happy Trails,

Cincinnati Slim

[sundance44`s]

I`ve got one of each brand .. and i prefer the R&D because it`s a 6 shot and you get to chose which hole ya want to leave empty also because .. it rolls in with out me looking down at the gun .. the Kist cylinder has a flat bottom on the recoil shield that has to be lined up to drop it in .Other than that they are both good cylinders ..worth the bucks .

[J.J. Ferrett]

Got my Kirst Konverters today. Immediately took them out and slipped them into my unused Pietta Remmies (I had two waiting for these Konverters to show up). They fit like perfectly.... no slip, no wobbles, perfect. Eased the trigger back, the new cylinders locked perfectly into alignment. I am impressed.

Grabbed a handful of ammo (only had Ultramax at hand) and took them outside. POI=POA!!!!!! from 20 yards I took bead on a soda bottle, squeeeeeze and up the bottle went into the air. heheheheh... yup.. impressed.

Edit:
Rechecked... ammo was Goex Black Dawge .45 230 RNFP

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks JJ, now ya know.  It's hard to explain till ya try 'em, but Walt Kirst builds cylinders akin to fine jewelery.  Fit and finish is supurb.  Function is falawless and accuracy is great.

My matched pair of Ruger Old Armys with the brass backstrap and squareback trigger guards will actually hold tighter groups with the Kirst Konverter cylinders with 45 Colt ammo than I can get out of the original Ruger C&B cylinders.  That's sayin' a LOT.  If course, I'm shootn' DD/ROAs in the original cylinder and PRS 45-250 RNFP in tht Kirst cylinder.  Both great Big Lube™ designs.

FWIW, I shot Frontiersman today with the original Ruger cylinders and the DD/ROA bullets.  Great morning and only one miss.  That was with my rifle cuz I hurried a shot.  Dang. . . .

DD-DLoS