Saddler/Saddler Sergeant impressions

[Pitspitr]

Thanks for the image is it dated by any chance?
Pawnee Bill

I think so. I'll check when I get home. I got the photo out of The US Army in the West 1865-1880 by Doug McChristian

[Pitspitr]

Well I can't afford the wool clothes yet and out here in th edesert I don't think I could wear them that much because of th eheat.  I do plan on getting the real uniform in the future, matter of fact I desire to get several uniforms from te  fatique to the dress uniform for a Sgt.
Now do I have the correct brass on my Kepui?

Having never portrayed an enlisted member of regimental staff I've never specifically studied their insignia, but my assumption would be that you insignia would be correct. They wouldn't be assigned to a company so there would be no company letter and they weren't officers so they wouldn't wear officer forage cap insignia.
I deffinately understand about the cost of wool uniforms. I do a little at a time. I've been putting mine together for about 12 years and it still isn't done. I wouldn't have what I do except that I wear it to work at a state historical park and I wouldn't work there if I hadn't gone broke farming.
About the heat; while I realize it doesn't get as hot here (it seldom gets above 110) but I think you might be surprized how comfortable good wool is. If the humidty is low and there is any breeze at all my uniform isn't that bad even at around 100+. I'ts when I wore cotton under it that I was miserable. Wool breathes so much better than cotton (especially today's blends) that with the evaporation of your sweat most of us find that it isn't nearly as uncomfortable as most folks think.

[Blackey Cole]

Thanks Pitspitr, I was thinking of joining the GAF until I figure it wasn't anyothers around here doing it and that it was CW era only.  If I am wrong I would be interested in hearing more.

[Pitspitr]

Hi Blackey
It isn't CW only. In fact I don't do CW, I'm IWP. The GAF includes the entire Victorian era and we even have at least one member who does the Mexican war. I'm not sure what we have for membership in your area but our membership is free, growing, worldwide and very active in cyberspace. If you hae an interest in the Victorian era and CAS I'd sure encourage you to join. It's well worth the price of admission

[Blackey Cole]

How authentic do you have to be for GAF? 

[Old Top]

River City John,

I am working on the Camel Corps idea, or at least starting there.

Old Top

[St. George]

Given the fact that the Army never had a 'Camel Corps' - the history of the affair is still interesting.

It was a short-lived, pre-Civil War experiment - and was carried out on contract.

For your reference:

There are good and bad descriptions of the Camel story.

The 'Good':

'A Bibliography of the Camel', California Historical Society Quarterly, December 1930. '

'Camels in California' - Gray - California Historical Society Quarterly, March 1930.

' Uncle Sam's Camels', the Journal of May H. Stacey, 1929 - Lewis B. Lesley (ed.),

'The Story of El Teion, 1942.' - Woodard - A very incomplete and undocumented work.

'The U.S. Camel Corps, an Army Experiment' - Faulk - Oxford University Press, 1976. A readable but sloppy work. The section an the far west is filled with errors.

'The Camel: its Evolution, Ecology, Behavior, and Relationship to Man' - Gauthiers-Pilters and Dagg - University of Chicago Press, Chicago, IL, 1981

'Uncle Sam's Camels: the Journal of May Humphreys Stacey - supplemented by the Report of Edward Fitzgerald Beale' - Lesley - (ed.) - Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1929

'Camels for Uncle Sam' - Yancey - Hendrick-Long Publishing Co., Dallas, TX, 1995

The 'Bad':

'Unique History of Fort Tejon' - Howard - Journal of the West. A mythical account; almost nothing is factual.

'Camels To California' - Fowler - 1950.  A cut and paste rip-off of history published by Stanford University.

'Camels in the West' -  Robertson - 1979. Riddled with errors.
'Drum Barracks and the Camel Corps' - booklet -California History Commission -  hilarious collection of errors, mistakes, and folklore.

The 'Official':

Camel File, Quartermaster Dept., R.G. 92, U.S. National Archives (USNA), Washington, D.C.
Letters Sent and Received, Quartermaster Dept., Dept. of the Pacific
Letters Sent and Received, Hdqtrs., Dept. of the Pacific, in R.G. 92 and 393, USNA.
Letters Received, Sec. of War, 1856-1864, R.G. 107, USNA

And since you're already reading - an interesting tale to go along with the above.

'The Red Ghost'  - Froman - American Heritage, XII (April 1961), pp. 35-37 and 94-98

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Old Top]

St. George,

Thank You for the references, I beleive that I have read a couple of the "good" and some of the "bad". I will have to check the rest out.

Old Top

[Blackey Cole]

Right now my uniform consists of the following: Cotton Navy pullover button shirts with two button pockets and button cuffs(from Coon Creek), Sky blue pants with lemon yellow strip of the width for a NCO.(from Coon Creek) the pants have a zipper and belt loops.  My hat are the Navy Blue Kepi with the brass crossed Sabres and a 5 in the uppper V.  and a buff/sand slouch hat with the same hat brass.  The boots are black 18' Oak Tree boots no dog ears, elastic tops(required for my large calves).  I have a sabre belt with a NCO sabre attached by a Walking rig and a 1863 ammo box. The shirts have Saddler Sgt chevrons on them, I also have a couple of navy blue pull over bib shirts with lemon yellow piping also from Coon Creek with the Saddler Sgt Chevrons.  My guns I shoot are ruger Bisley Vaquero either BCH or SS( depends on my mood and Wx), my rifle is a 73 Deluxe Border Rifle, and my Shotgun is usualy a Baikal single trigger long barrel SxS.  I also have a 1885 flap holster that I wear in custome with either my brass frame Navy pistole or my blck plastic colt 1873 blue gun.

Do I qualify?

[Pitspitr]

Blackey
As was said before there are NO uniform requirements. All you need is an intrest in the victorian era military, so yes you qualify. Now as to the uniform; if, as time goes by, you have the interest and the means to improve your impression I would highly encourage you to do so. Not because it isn't good enough for the GAF, but because (for me anyway) it feels good to to work towards something (in this case historical accuracy) that's is a little more challenging. If you choose to upgrade your uniform I'll be glad to assist you in any way I can. And for starters let me offer this piece of advice.(and you know what they say about the value of free advice).
When buying your uniform and equipment, buy the most historically accurate you can. The reason is that while you may not be interested in reenacting now, you may be in the future. When I started reenacting I wasn't interested in joining the General Miles Marching and Chowder Society. After a while I did decide to join and had to replace some of my equipment to meet their standards. This forced me to spend more money. In reality some of our approved sources are actually less expensive than buying that item off the shelf at a sutler. Check with the GMMCS for approved sources for the IWP gear or good CW reinactment group for CW gear. Their always happy to help a new guy.
Oh BTW, check in with Sagebrush Burns. He'd be your department commander should you decide to join the GAF

[Pawnee Bill]

When buying your uniform and equipment, buy the most historically accurate you can. The reason is that while you may not be interested in reenacting now, you may be in the future. When I started reenacting I wasn't interested in joining the General Miles Marching and Chowder Society.

A little off topic but!!!
Who do you reccomend for a 5 button Blouse?
I got a real nice Tate 1858 but can't find anything in a 5 button but cheep of the rackers in purple" Barney" cloth.
Thank You
Pawnee Bill

[Pitspitr]

A little off topic but!!!
Who do you reccomend for a 5 button Blouse?
I got a real nice Tate 1858 but can't find anything in a 5 button but cheep of the rackers in purple" Barney" cloth.
Thank You
Pawnee Bill

Mine is a Connie Lindemier, but as far as I know she's out of business. Right now Joyce Gabriel is making them but has a fairly long waiting list and is having trouble finding the right cloth since Family Heirloom Weavers quit making it. The IWP is tough as the market isn't big enough to keep people interested in supplying it.
About the picture the caption reads:"124. Sergeant Charles N. Loynes, Seventh U.S. Infantry, bedecked his 1876 campaign hat with full insignia and hat cord, a rare occurence. Loynes was a veteran of the Battle of the Big Hole, August 9, 1877."
It would appear to have been taken post-1881 as in it he wears the later model 5 button blouse without piping.

[Pawnee Bill]

Mine is a Connie Lindemier, but as far as I know she's out of business. Right now Joyce Gabriel is making them but has a fairly long waiting list and is having trouble finding the right cloth since Family Heirloom Weavers quit making it. The IWP is tough as the market isn't big enough to keep people interested in supplying it.
About the picture the caption reads:"124. Sergeant Charles N. Loynes, Seventh U.S. Infantry, bedecked his 1876 campaign hat with full insignia and hat cord, a rare occurence. Loynes was a veteran of the Battle of the Big Hole, August 9, 1877."
It would appear to have been taken post-1881 as in it he wears the later model 5 button blouse without piping.

Thanks Pard
Especialy for the picture credit . That is in fact a rare one.
Cheers
Pawnee Bill

[Blackey Cole]

if you need leather let me know I have several references and a few patterns for the CW era.  I made some SASS hoslters that looked like they came from the a863 flap holster but it was lined with metal and leather so they would retain their shape.  I made the for the runner in the military custome contest at Mulecamp this year.  Just let me know what you need and this Saddler Sgt will make it at a good price.  Authernic unlined stuff is fairly inexpensive as it doesn't require as much leather or effort.