Suggested Spencer Fixes or Repairs

[Two Flints]

Hi,

This thread is "a checklist of things to do to your new gun so as to avoid any known minor problem without having each new user figure that out for himself?"

PLEASE, JUST POST A FIX OR REPAIR THAT YOU FEEL HELPS YOUR SPENCER ORIGINAL OR REPRODUCTION MODEL SHOOT BETTER!

Would anyone like to start this off?  I would be willing to keep a list and eventually put it all together in a "Spencer repair-type" thread.  All you have to do is indicate as clearly and completely as possible the problem you encountered with your new or old (original or repro) Spencer and how you fixed it.  Credit will be given to each person who makes a suggestion!

Two Flints
                                 Suggested Spencer Fixes or Repairs
                                 
1.  I had a conversation yesterday with Nate Kiowa Jones (aka Steve Young of Steve's Gunz
    well known for his work on leverguns for the CAS crowd) and he mentioned that he's
    done some work with the Taylor Spencers.  He feels that he has a good understanding
    of the gun.  Interestingly, he found that removal of one of the extractor hooks smooths
    up operation of the gun.  I've already forgotten which side, but one side of the part is
    ground down so that it doesn't contact the case but still acts to align the part in the gun.
    Anyway, here's another source of help if you need it.  I pointed him to L. Romano as
    well, although he had heard of that producer of Spencers. (borrowed from SSS member, Hobie, who
    first posted this suggestion in the topic entitled, "How About Putting Together a Spencer Repair
    or Troubleshooting Manual" on April 1, 2005.)

[French Jack]

(2)  I had my Taylor's Spencer develop a small chip in the edge of the upper breech block next to the firing  pin slide.  This was caused by the hammer screw loosening and allowing the hammer to move enough to strike the edge of the breech block when hitting the slide.  I Locktited the screw in the hammer with Blue Locktite, and beveled the inner edge of the hammer with a tool grinder ( a Dremel Tool also works well) to prevent any further hits on the breech block even if the screw does back out again.  Since then, I have had no problems.  I smoothed out the edge of the chip at the same time. 

It is a good idea to locktite the screws on the firing pin slide to keep them from backing out-- if they loosen you will get light firing pin strikes.

[Two Flints]

(3)  "I know this topic was brought up awhile back, but I have some more info.  When I got my current 56-50 Taylor's (momma felt sorry for me selling my first one to Yankee banddit for part of a new roof) It had about a 20+ pound trigger pull!  I popped off the lock plate (easy, 2 screws) and found the problem.  With all three of the lockwork arbor screws tightened, the sear was bound up. The smooth shank on the screw through the sear was about .oo1 too short.  I loosened that screw a quarter turn, and left the others tight.  It worked perfect.  I called Tammy and told her.  She will make sure that this is checked.  I will eventually stone down the whole sear so I can tighten the screw.  Taylor's would have fixed it, but I figured I could do it (took 5 minutes) so why bother.

I just lightened the trigger spring portion of the main spring by grinding lengthwise on the sear portion only.  I carefully took off less than 20% of the material  Works great.  Nice crisp trigger pull."
(borrowed from SSS member, Tuolumne Lawman, who first posted this suggestion back on October 13, 2005 in the topic entitled, "Taylor's Trigger Pull.")

(4)  This was done about a month ago.  I'll try to set it in order as I worked on it.

The trigger pull on my Taylor's Spencer was in the order of 25 pounds or so.  When I asked about how to lighten the trigger pull I was informed to thin the mainspring.

Taking the Spencer into my work shed, I removed the lock from the stock and employing a mainspring vice, removed the mainspring.  Having had to thin replacement mainsprings on a pair of 1860 Conversions, I broke out the Dremmel and a sanding drum and a grinding stone and proceded to remove metal from the main spring.  I quenched often so not to lose the temper of the spring and repeatedly reassembled the lock to test the trigger pull.  When I got it down to where I was comfortable with it, I polished the spring with a fine grit drum to rid the surface of grind marks.

Not only did I have to reduce the thickness of the spring where it bore against the sear, but i had to reduce the width in that area as well.

If you are going to do this I would suggest you work slowly and check your progress often.  The old saw that "you can remove metal but you can't put it back" holds very true on a project like this.  Don't forget to cool the spring often by quenching it in water, even if it doesn't feel all that hot.  Better to be safe than sorry.  I'd rather waste a little time doing it slowly and RIGHT, than have to buy a new mainspring because i got impatient.  (borrowed from SSS member. Grapeshot, who first posted this suggestion on August 4, 2005 in the topic entitled "How Have You Altered or modified your  Spencer")

[Hell-Er High Water]

TF,

On page 7 of this forum under the topic "How Have You Modified Or Altered Your Spencer" are a couple of items that you may want to add to the list you are putting together.  The one that I posted was regarding spare parts that I purchased. 

From that post

(5)  When I first got my Taylor's Spencer in 56-50 it had what my gunsmith and I could only estimate to be about a 20 lb trigger pull.  Not the best for accurate shooting.  He reworked the mainspring, which is a combination mainspring and trigger spring, as well as the sear engagement, and it now has a reasonable 5 lb trigger pull.  Not the best, but reasonable.  Needless to say accuracy has improved dramatically.

I also purchased a replacement rear sight leaf from Taylor's and reworked the sight notch for a better sight picture.

One other thing that I have also done is to purchase from Taylor's a complete replacement set of all springs and small screws.  Might as well have them on hand and the cost is not that much.  No need to have to wait for them when you need them, and sooner or later one or more will be needed.

With my Spencer there was included an Owner's Manual.  In it there is an illustrated parts breakdown (exploded view) with part numbers.  The exploded view is correct in most, but not all cases, for the 56-50 version, but was OK for what I wanted.

I was in contact with both Tammy & Sue at different times.  The phone number is 540/722-2017 or you can get their E-Mail address off of the Taylor's web site.

I purchased 1 each of the following:  Main Spring, Rear Sight Base Spring, Rear Sight Slide Screw, Firing Pin, Stirrup, Sear and Rear Sight Ladder.  The total cost, including shipping, was $56.75 in September of last year.  I based my list on things that I have seen fail on Sharps actions in the past as well as some other parts that I felt I wanted.  The lock work on these is basically a Sharps lock and I understand that Sharps actually made some original locks for Spencer.

HHW

[Two Flints]

(6) Howdy,  I did two things to lighten the trigger pull.

First, the screws holding the arbort or yoke on the back side of the lock platre did not have a long enough unthreaded shank.  Tightened down, they bound up on the action.  I loosened them a tad (using locktight to hold them) and it lightened up quite a bit.

Next, I trimmed off about 1/3 of the side of the bottom of the mainspring. which engages the sear.  DO NOT CUT ANY OFF OF THE HAIRPIN END, BUT START FROM THE SEAR END BY THE SEAR, GOING TO JUST SHORT OF THE PIN THAT ENGAGES THE SIDE PLATE. THis is usually more than enough.

This is easier and safer than thinning the spring, which if done un-evenly will cause the spring to stress in the thinnest spot and sometimes snap. If you do thin the spring, USE A DREMMEL AND AN EMORY SANDING DRUM, continually moving it back and forth, keeping it even.
(Borrowed from SSS member, Tuolumne Lawman, who first posted this suggestion in the topic entitled, "How Many Rounds Through Your Spencer," on February 1, 2006.)

[Two Flints]

(7)   Well I was at Yolo and the River City Regulators with Hell R Highwater this weekend, and used the 56-50 infantry rifle as my main match rifle.  It shot clean, and worked perfectly.  I did notice, however, that it seemed to catcch a little after firing 30 rounds or so, and I chalked it off to fouling and sticking cases.  I did a post mortem, however, and found it was not sticking cases after all.

I remembered a trick to help smooth the action and ejection.  On the back of the breech block is a flat surface that engages the frame.  At the top of this, it has a somewhat abrupt transistion to the top of the block.  This makes you have to be more positive with the down stroke, and robs some inertia.  I slightly (and I mean SLIGHTLY) broke this corner and rounded it a tidge with a dremel.  It made all the difference in the world.  Working the action is 50% easier!

I recalled that I had a simular, though worse, problem on an original that I had fitted a S&S breech block to.  In that case, I found I haad to break off this corner on the new breech block, and it cured it completely

REMEMEBER, ONLY SLIGHTLY ROUND THAT CORNER. It will remove that little "stickyness" just before opening.
(Suggested by Tuolumne Lawman)

[Two Flints]

The Lock:

I finally removed the lock.  If you want to do that, be very careful, there is some thin wood around the edge of the side plate.

I coated the wood inside of the inletting with tung oil to harden the wood fibers.

There was absolutely no grease in the lock.  It was dry as a bone.  Trigger pull on my fisning scale with the lock in this condition was 18+ lbs.  Parts were smooth & well fitted other than that  little lubrication problem.  The sear engagement was just fine.  I won't monkey with mine & suggest you leave yours alone, too.

I greased the lock, reassembled & tried trigger pull again.  Cocked smoother, but pull still aobut 18 lbs.

If you don't understand the heat tempering of springs, nor understand how tool marks can cause zones of weakness causing premature spring failure, if you don't know the proper way to work down a leaf spring, read no further.  Take the gun to a gunsmith who understands sidelock actions.

The outer 1/2 of the bottom spring leaf is the trigger return, it was contributing 8 lbs to the trigger pull. I removed enough spring material to reduce the trigger return to 6 lbs.

I then workd down the top leaf, which controls the hammer fall, about 15%.  Reassembled.  Trigger pull is now a crisp 8.5 lbs, with smooth travel thanks to lubrication.  I might work down the spring some more before I do final polishing.

Stay tuned.  (copied from a previos post of Back Strap Bill)

[Two Flints]

Howdy,

I did two things to lighten the trigger pull.

First, the screws holding the arbor or yoke on the back side of the lock platre did not have a long enough unthreaded shank.  Tightened down, they bound up on the action.  I loosened them a tad (using locktight to hold them) and it lightened up quite a bit.

Next, I trimmed off about 1/3 of the side of the bottom of the mainspring. which engages the sear.  DO NOT CUT ANY OFF OF THE HAIRPIN END, BUT START FROM THE SEAR END BY THE SEAR, GOING TO JUST SHORT OF THE PIN THAT ENGAGES THE SIDE PLATE. THis is usually more than enough.

This is easier and safer than thinning the spring, which if done un-evenly will cause the spring to stress in the thinnest spot and sometimes snap. If you do thin the spring, USE A DREMMEL AND AN EMORY SANDING DRUM, continually moving it back and forth, keeping it even.

[Two Flints]

the original spencers were to be put on full cock before cycling the action to prevent slam fires on the rimfire cartridges. this is a good practice for the repros also. half cock is just that; it is not a safety. do not dry fire the spencer. the hammer will batter and flatten the receiver. i have an original that shows that damage. it must have been dry fired by a prior owner. (Copied from a post by Geo)

[Two Flints]

The Stabler cutoff as used on the Burnside contract guns is kinda neat!  It does allow for single loading with the minimun of fussing about.  The problem with the original design comes from the triggerplate screw used with the devise.  It's just a bit longer that those without the Stabler devise.  The screw has a tendency to loosen with use, and then allows it to swing freely which causes it to end up half on/off and jams the breechblock.  I just cut a small washer from a tefflon gasket material and installed it between the Stabler devise and the triggerplate.  Keeps the devise snug and the screw does not back out.   Now mine stays either on or off.  I think I will adapt the Taylor Spencer for the Stabler cutoff.  Order one from S&S firearms,  A screw for the rear sight elevator retainer, make a slightly longer metric triggerplate screw,  drill and tap the triggerplate for the elevator retainer screw to limit the rotation of the devise and place a tefflon washer between the devise and triggerplate just as I've done on my original Burnside Spencer.  Don't see why it will not work.  (Copied from a post by Pistol Blaine)

[Drydock]

No one has mentioned the Dreaded Spencer Over rotation: IE the breeck block and carrier rotating past the trigger plate stop, locking the whole works up.

THis is caused by the block dropping just a little too deep into the carrier, thanks to enthusiastic working of the action and Armi Sport cutting the carrier just a little too deep to begin with.

I have heard of 2 solutions to this:

-1-Drill and tap the lower carrier for 2 small flat head screws, used to limit the breechblock travel.
-2-Placing a length of rod inside the block spring, to again limit travel.  I like this better, no drilling.

I have perhaps a 3rd solution.  Having experienced overrotation with my .45 Spencer, I was pondering this while going thru a box of misc. reloading parts.  I had a couple of Lee knurled adjustment knobs out of bullet seating dies.  These have skinny O rings on them.  Hey now, that looks about right . . .

Installed the O ring around the Breech block lever post, then reassembled.  Problem solved!  Perhaps not as permanent as the other 2, but quick and easy.  Found that a thin plastic washer cut from a bottle top worked as well, even cut a washer from a metal soda twist off cap that worked fine as well.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   Has anyone else encountered a "magazine plug" in his Infantry Rifle? Believe it or not, I have a narrow rod affixed to the bottom of the magazine follower, limiting the capacity to five, plus one in the spout. A hunting plug, 'no doubt'...

              Be Well, All!

                              M.T.Marfield
                                 6-17-06

[geo]

mt two cents worth: front sight should be about .52" tall, rear sight use a dremel to open up the notch. watch for soft metals used in repro actions particularly for the half cock catch. keep all screws tight especially the hammer screw (prevents "hammering" the receiver). use a quick motion to work the action but don't overdue it with the norwegian steam. if you find you have feeding problems look to your cartridges first. the rims sometimes are thick enough that the flat of the outside of the rim drags on the magazine walls. carefully bevel the top and bottom of the rim to reduce the surface area. should stop feeding problems. put the piece on full cock when loading either single shots or from the magazine (these pieces can slam fire). good luck, geo.