Black Powder Frame?

[tmackay3302]

I was looking at the Buffalo Arms web site and I saw a Cimarron/Uberti SAA in .45 colt that was listed under, "Black Powder Frame."  Does that mean that it's in the shape of an SAA, but is c&b, or does it mean that it'll only take BP loads?  Can someone clear this up for me? 

Also, has anyone bought from buffalo arms? are they reliable?

[St. George]

The term - 'Black Powder Frame' - generally refers to the earlier Colt frame  that preceded the transverse pin cylinder pin retaining assembly adopted in 1896.

The cylinder pin retaining system on the earlier Colt Single Action Army was a screw.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[tmackay3302]

So that just refers to the cylinder pin?  Does that mean I can also use smokeless rounds? (not that I would want to ....)

[Four-Eyed Buck]

With a modern made gun, yes. I've got two EMF Hartfords( Uberti's) with the BP frame in 38-40 that I use Smokeless in.
  I wouldn't recommend smokeless in an original Colt with that frame style( 1900 back to 1873)........Buck

[tmackay3302]

Okay, that makes sense. Then .45 lc would be a good load then? Or does it not seal the chamber enough? I've read a whole bunch of different opinions...

[Abilene]

Howdy Tmackey,
Cimarron calls the BP Frame model P the "Old Model" and they call the newer styled frame with the transverse retainer button for the cylinder pin the "Pre-War".  Besides the cylinder pin retention method, the BP frame model also has a "bullseye" (round, with a little hole in the center) ejector rod tab, versus the crescent shaped tab on the ejector rod of the smokeless frame.  Other than those differences, the guns are identical and both will shoot BP or smokeless fine.

45LC is a fine caliber for a model P.  After all, that is the original caliber for which the SAA was designed.  Sealing of the chamber is much more of an issue for rifles than for pistols.

[tmackay3302]

Okay, you guys have done pretty good so far, but can you answer this? I read that the newer Uberti's only safety was the cylinder pin, when the hammer recieves a blow the pin is forced forward stopping the cylinder, and preventing the gun from firing. If the cylinder pin on the BP frame is different than on the pre-war, does it not have that safety? everyone says not to carry with a sixth round in the chamber even with that, so why have a safety at all?

[Montana Slim]

Okay, you guys have done pretty good so far, but can you answer this? I read that the newer Uberti's only safety was the cylinder pin, when the hammer recieves a blow the pin is forced forward stopping the cylinder, and preventing the gun from firing. If the cylinder pin on the BP frame is different than on the pre-war, does it not have that safety? everyone says not to carry with a sixth round in the chamber even with that, so why have a safety at all?

Importation laws require having a safety that passes a drop test or such....(forgetting the best safety is between one's ears).

In "real" Colt's there are a few additional subtle differences  between the different generations (hammer, sights, bolt, yadayada), but the easiest to spot is the cylinder pin retainer having a screw. I favor the 1st generation, not only because they are a more accurate represenation of the 1873 used prior to turn of the century, but the screw retainer positively prevents the cylinder pin from turning with the cylinder when cocking.

Slim

[Virgil Ray Hality]

Hi Slim, On the Uberti made revolvers, you will find one or both safety devices.  One is a hammer safety that has a small block, spring & plunger.  The plunger works off the trigger and will push the hammer block out enough to prevent a discharge if the gun is dropped on the hammer and the trigger is not held back.  The other is a long cylinder pin with a second notch for the retaining pin.  When the cylinder pin is fully pushed into the frame the tail end pokes through the frame at the hammer end.  The pin will prevent the hammer from dropping all the way. 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Abilene;  Wasn't the SAA first submitted to the Ordnance Dept. in .44 Colt?  After all, .44 Colt was the official army pistol cartridge.  The way I heard it, the Army sent it back, asking Colt to up the caliber to .45.

[St. George]

In 1872, the Ordnance Department called for revolvers to be tested for possible adoption by the Service.

Smith and Wesson sent three - Colt sent one.

In .44 Russian...

Testing on the S&Ws was completed in October of that year - the Colt not being received until November and subsequently was returned due to its chambering.

Colt installed a cylinder and returned the weapon and tests were completed on this revolver by 27 December, 1872.

Ordnance Notes No. V - published 27 June 1873, details these very complete tests.

The Colt was unhesitatingly declared the superior revolver "in most respects, and much better adapted to the wants of the Army than the Smith and Wesson."
(quoted from above reference)

During these tests, the Government specified a .45 caliber cartridge to better conform to the .45-70  cartridge adopted for the rifle.

The base pin latch was the screw that 'retains' the base pin (also known as the cylinder pin) - but it doesn't lock it in place - it merely screws into the frame and meets the groove in the base pin to keep it in place.

It was replaced by the transverse pin in 1896, as the older, worn base pin latches would commonly unscrew themselves...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!