Spanish copy of S&W "44 Double Action" Top-Break revolver ....

[RattlesnakeJack]

Just received a recent acquisition which might be of some small interest to participants in this forum.  It is a .455 cal. Great War vintage British-accepted "Pistol, Revolver, Old Pattern, No. 1 Mark I" (pp. 57-59, Revolvers of the British Services, 1854-1944; pp. 93-94, Howdah to High Power ...)





I am hoping someone (Spanish Marshal?) will be able to steer me in the direction of more information about the 19th Century Spanish military use of this pattern of revolver (see below ...)

Some background on this particular revolver - During WWI, British production capacity was woefully inadequate to supply the one million .455 cal. revolvers that the Ministry of Munitions, in 1915, deemed would be required, so it was decided that "substitute standard" revolvers would be acquired from non-British sources.  The two primary criteria for the selection of suitable models were (1) that the country of origin had to be a non-combattant and (2) must have production capacity deemed to be adequate for the purpose.  The best known substitute revolvers contracted for by Britain, of course, were the American Smith & Wesson "Hand Ejector" and Colt "New Service" models. 

However, the Ministry also turned to Spain, which had a strong firarms manufacturing industry, and selected two very similar models being produced there, which were essentially copies of the top-break S&W ".44 Double Action"introduced in 1881.  My references indicate that these models of revolver were approved for Spanish military officers by the 1884 Royal Decree which introduced the Spanish 11mm center-fire service revolver cartridge.  (The "Old Pattern" nomenclature used to describe these models by the British in 1915 relates, of course to the 1880's origin of the design ...) 

My acquisition does have British military proof and acceptance markings, but at some time in its post-military life it has been "pimped" with nickle plating ....  Other than that, it is in good shape, with strong rifling, but has an intenal problem (which resulted in my getting it for a good price, but which I understand should actually be a fairly easy fix ...)  I thought it would make an interesting addition to my collection of Canadian/British service pistols and, assuming I can get it operational, hope that I can even use it in NCOWS/GAF events. 

These revolvers were produced by a sort of "consortium" of Spanish manufacturers - this one was made by Fa. de Trocaola Aranzabal Y Cia., of Eibar...

[RattlesnakeJack]

RCJ:

While it looks "nice and shiny" in the pictures, this was a very economical acquisition ( if anything, I paid too much for it, at about Cdn$150 ...)   While they are certainly sound and functional - at least if they are one of the revolvers which passed British proofing and acceptance procedures, which quite a few failed, I understand - these "OP" pistols do not command much money at the best of times, and this one is worth even less as a military collectable because of the nickle plating.  It is also in need of a bit of repair, but I understand that it shouldn't be too much of a problem.  (Otherwise, I guess I'll have a rather expensive paperweight ...  )

In my case, I found the nickle finish something of an attraction for me because, in addition to keeping the price down, it also seems - at least in my mind - to make the revolver more closely resemble an 1880's S&W since so many of those were nickle plated ....

The United Kingdom acquired their revolvers during WWI, so I do want to establish NCOWS-acceptable pre-1900 provenance.  My British military handgun references allude to it - one even making specific mention of the 1884 decree approving the design for Spanish military officers.  I certainly hope Spanish Marshal can help with that ...

[St. George]

It 'markedly resembles' the S&W  - so from that standpoint, I'd imagine it will fill the bill for use.

Your cited reference - Revolvers of the British Services 1854 - 1954' - by Chamberlain and Taylersen - gives ample information on the 'actual' production and use  of this particular revolver - most is cited on pages 58/59 - in the Chapter titled 'Foreign Objects 1900 - 1945' - and states that these Spanish-manufactured revolvers were 'approved' to be built and 'sealed'  on 8 November 1915 - for the Ministry of Munitions.

They were produced by Garate Anitua & Co and Troacola Aranzabel & Co., and were introduced into Service in List of Changes, Para. 17555.

Orbea & Co. were also producers but no Sealed Pattern seems to exist.

They had a 'very' high rejection rate - with no deliveries being accepted after 31 July 1916.

The Brits 'tried' to get the Canadians to turn in 'their' S&W .455 Hand-Ejectors and .455 New Services in exchange for these weapons - to no avail - and eventually - they wound up in the hands of the Italians.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Captain John Jarrett]

Rattlesnake Jack,

  Very nice!  I had to choose between that same exact model and a Webley Mk. V in .455.  I chose the Webley but here is the link to the S&W copy  http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/PistolsModern.html#a%20pistols%20British%20Military  Click on British Military and then scroll down to the second on the list, price is quite a bit more then what you paid .

Capt. John

[RattlesnakeJack]

Capt. John:

Interesting to note that vendor actually has three Spanish-made British "Old Pattern" revolvers offered, two of them being by the same maker as mine (Trocaola Aranzabal y Cia. - "TAC").   And each of the three revolvers is listed at the same price - about 4 times what I paid.  Can't complain about that!         However, I note that both TAC revolvers are mis-identified as "Old Pattern No. 2 MkI, rather than the No. 1 version ...

Here are scans of the two models of Spanish "Old Pattern" revolvers approved by the British, scanned from Chamberlain & Taylerson's "Revolvers of the British Services, 1854-1954" - These are photos of the official "Sealed Pattern" of each of the models ....

The No. 1 Mark I:


The No. 2 Mark I:


Aside from minor internal variations, the most obvious difference between the No. 1 and No. 2 models is the shape of both the gripframe and the grips .... based on what I have seen the two slightly different triggerguard shapes were used on both models.

[Trap]

  'Jack

  If you would like to have NCOWS conformation on legality Please send a hard copy to me with a written request for such. and your documentation. I will PM you my USPS address. thanks for doing it RIGHT.   jt

[St. George]

A.W.F. Taylerson wrote a three-part compilation - 'The Revolver'.

He divides them into year groups:

'The Revolver, 1818 - 1865'
'The Revolver, 1865 - 1888'
'The Revolver, 1888 - 1914'

Check your better-appointed Libraries for a specific copy - or an Inter-Library loan, since they're fairly pricey on the secondary market.

He did perhaps more research on the subject than anyone and his books are considered 'bibles' by those who collect revolvers in their many forms.

Spain's small arms history is interesting - and archived moderately well - but there don't seem to be many books on Spanish military weapons, beyond modern ones.

They had an abysmal reputation in America due in large part to the 'flooding' of these shores with low-end guns after WWI - though many of their manufacturers produced fine weapons - and still do.

Could be that because of that - no one really thought of collecting them and doing the needed research.

Personally - I'd question actual 'purchase' of anything other than a Webley, Colt or Smith & Wesson by a serving British or Colonial Officer - simply due to that form of 'peer pressure' that junior Officers are subjected to.

The various shops that catered to the equipping of those 'young gentlemen' had something to do with that - as did the advice of older, seasoned Officers.
(makes you wonder what those old soldiers thought post-WWI, when the .38/200 came about...)

The period of issue for 'these' revolvers was quite short - though the design pre-dates it.

They're something that belongs in a WWI collection - and in a collection of British-issued small arms, because they show what lengths are gone to in order to arm and equip an Army in wartime.

Vaya, and Good Hunting - researching can sometimes become a daunting task - but a damned enjoyable one, and I wish you Luck.

Scouts Out!

[RattlesnakeJack]

Thank you for your excellent input, St. George!

Is Taylerson's 3-part work limited to British-made and -used revolvers, or does it cover revolvers "world-wide" as it were?  The reason I ask, of course, is that if it is limited to "British" revolvers, it may not touch upon these Spanish "Old Pattern" ones, since the UK didn't start acquiring them until 1915, I believe .....

I agree that it is unlikely that a British officer would purchase one of these revolvers - I gather that they were acquired for issue to "Other Ranks" (and, I suspect, that would likely have been done only as a "last resort".) 

[St. George]

Taylerson's works cover the 'range' of revolvers.

They're a worthwhile acquisition to the library when they can be found reasonably priced - but doing 'that' is going to require some luck.

'Old Pattern' is the British term.

What I found 'interesting' was the fact that the Brits tried to 'force' the Canadians to swap - recognizing both the superiority of 'their' arms - and inferiority of the Spanish-made ones and wanting to fob them off on any 'non-English' element of the Commonwealth.

That the Colts and S&Ws were essentially 'purchased' by the people of Canada 'for' use by Canadian soldiers was the argument used to retain them in Canadian hands.

As an aside - beware of 'marked' revolvers featuring Broad Arrows, inscriptions and Unit markings.

Buy the weapon as if un-marked in any way - and force yourself to buy un-altered guns, as too many were made into .45 ACP and poorly...

There's a pretty 'industrious' guy creating Marks IV, V and VI Webleys as Unit and/or individually-owned marked sidearms.
The big S&Ws  and Colts have been seen as well - but as they bring more money as is - they're harder to just buy in order to alter - whereas the various Webley revolvers can still be had reasonably.

Regrettably - Commonwealth-issued weapons are damned difficult to 'prove' - and the Unit's Armourers used individual letter/number stamps - though REME Armourers generally did a much 'neater' job of it.

The Spanish gun makers copied all manner of weapons - figuring out exactly 'when' they did so is going to be interesting.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!