Need help Identifying a Remington Replica.

J.J. Ferrett · May 01, 2006, 11:27:48 PM

Greetings, I just got myself my first Remington 1858(?) but, I am having trouble finding out any information on it.
I traded it for an SMLE at a gun show and the only details on the tag were 'Replica Remington 1858 .44'
I have taken it out and put a few balls through it, to find out that .451 balls will fall out of 3 of the chambers and not shave any lead going into any of the 6. Using .454, I get a slight shaving of lead, but, it looks like the chambers have been chamfered a little. One of the chambers still looks a little large for the .454 ball cos I get bullet creep when I have fired off one chamber (not being the one that 'creeps').

Now to the questions. Looking over this revolver, I can only find a few markings (see pics), and the front sight is a brass bead.
I know that the PN marking on the cylinder is an italian proof mark. Can anyone shed light on the front sight or the interlocked diamonds in front of the serial? I would really like to find out what this is and who made it.
Finally, on cocking, the cylinder doesnt quite turn enough to fully lock and align with the forcing cone. How do I change the timing on this?

Thanks in advance

JJ Ferrett

hellgate · May 01, 2006, 11:52:10 PM

I suspect the front sight is a replacement as i have never seen a brass bead on a repro. It looks like a '51 Navy sight.
Look under the rammer along the underside of the barrel for more markings. From the amount of frame metal above the barrel I can hazard to guess that it is not a Pietta as they have much more "meat" around the barrel where it threads into the frame. So, It could be a Uberti, Euroarms, or other make. I haven't seen an ASM in so long that I don't remember. The Belgian(?) guns are pretty lightly built.

J.J. Ferrett · May 02, 2006, 01:05:47 PM

Hmm.. nothing under the lever on the bottom of the barrel, except what looks like a C just in front of the pin.
I had a very close look at the front sight and it doesnt look like its a replacement. I cant see any work marks around the base of its pin. The revolver itself is in near perfect condition and so I cant see any reason why the front sight would have been replaced. Doesnt even look like it was shot much.

Another thing that I have noticed is that the barrel looks like it may be a smoothbore, or have very shallow rifling. I am gonna slug the barrel and maybe the chambers and see.

Anyone have any ideas on the Diamonds??

Oldelm · May 02, 2006, 04:52:19 PM

JJ,.......this is just a longshot,...but take the screw out that holds the loading lever in, and take the lever w/plunger off, then pull the cyl. pin all the way out, and see if there are any other letters hidden on the barrel under the cyl.pin head. Euroarms/Armi San Paolo does stuff like that. Their logo is "DGG" with the two G's superimposed.
I can't help ya about the crossed diamonds,...but that sure is a signature for somthin I'd say. So's the serial # on barrel. Is there any serial # on bottom of grip frame? If so, does it match the one on cylinder?

Major 2 · May 02, 2006, 05:37:43 PM

A foggy memory has me sayin earlier Pietta Bros. Prior to the Larger Grip re-tooling model offered today.

I seem recall those Double Diamonds represented the Brothers, my guess circa 1978-80 maybe a little earlier.

I do recall a repo with brass bead sight instead of the correct pinched post .
If I recall correctly it was Imported by Sile or CVA about 1980-81

J.J. Ferrett · May 03, 2006, 02:06:05 AM

Stripped the thing down to its last screw.
The barrel has a crown like marking on the top right at the back just before the threads. The trigger has the same little crown like marking just next to the screw hold for the hand.
The only other marking I can find on it is underneath the knurled end of the cylinder pin. The marking there is 448.

I Ben Robbed · May 03, 2006, 01:30:59 PM

Not an Armi San Marco or a Armi San Paolo. I'm going to be able to check out an older Pietta tonight, I'll take a look at it.

J.J. Ferrett · May 03, 2006, 03:53:45 PM

I managed to get a clear(ish) photo of the cartouches on the cylinder.
I managed to find that the proofs on the cylinder match to the Gardone proof house stamp and the Gardone V.T. Black Powder proof stamp (PN), so the cylinder was definately proofed in Italy, but, seeing as I am pretty sure that this is a replacement cylinder, it doesnt really tell me anything.

I havent found ANY cartouches even remotely matching these anywhere else on the gun.
I have also blown up the cartouche that i have found on the right hand side of the frame (right hand as viewed from back).
Looks like a star and a knights helmet facing left.
Photo quality isnt the best, but, I had to blow these up to a viewable size.

and thanks for all your help

Smokin Gun · May 04, 2006, 11:54:58 PM

If you take off the grips and find DGG on the right side of the grip frame it's an Armi San Paolo(ASP) But no ASP that I know of or Any other Rem has a Post type site on it, could be an ASM. There were so many older makes, you know? Loose chambers? just use a .454 ball or have them honed out to all match and use a .457 ball. I'd do the first and have fun shootin it.
Good lookin gun though. Great pics...

J.J. Ferrett · May 07, 2006, 02:58:06 PM

There is a 3 fig serial number on the inside of the grip frame, matching the one at the rear bottom of the barrel.
No other marks on the grip frame.

Someone pointed out that the joined diamonds (lozenges) may be a very early pedersoli mark.

I just got my second remmie, used, and guess what... its exactly the same markings but the serial number on the cylinder is 1066 later that this one. The new one though has a standard style front sight, not dovetailed in though.