Help/Advice Needed by a Spencer "Virgin"

[TexasHighlander]

Howdy folks, The Texas Highlander here. I just joined your group based on the fact that I just bought a Taylor's Spencer and figured a "support group" would be a good thing to have.

I found a "like new" .44 Russian, low serial number, for only $800 on the internet and snapped it up, figuring the Shooting Gods were smiling at me. The gun looks, smells and feels unfired; she is a thing of beauty. However, I have read about the feeding and extraction problems with the early model Russians. Well, today I got my first chance to really sit down and look her over and discovered I can't get the magazine open. It's my understanding that you apply pressure at the top, "rocking" it slightly to raise the lower part, then swivel to the right. I've applied all of the pressure that I can, in every way that I can think of to apply it (short of a hammer!), and mine doesn't budge. I also looked all of the surrounding parts over under a glass and can't see any scratch or drag marks, nothing to indicate wear of any kind. I'm starting to suspect that that's why it appears unfired and why I got it so cheap. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Am I missing a trick or should this thing go back to Taylor's?

Bill McHenry
The Texas Highlander

[Two Flints]

Hi Tex,

I took out my .45 Schofield Spencer and removed my magazine in the following way:

That metal bar that is the cover to the magazine arm:  I just put my thumb on the top of that metal bar push hard and then push to the right, and the magazine feeder (attached to the bar) just about pops out.

That metal bar has a slot cut into the metal near its top on the left side.  The bar slot moves to the right and a dimple attached to the stock base moves within the slot until the magazine feeder is freed.

Maybe someone installed the magazine feeder back into the stock incorrectly?  If your bar has the slot on the left side then it wasn't installed incorrectly.  Then, I'd suggest tapping carefully on the side of the bar where the slot is...so the force behind your tapping is going to the right...which is the correct direction for removing the magazine.  Try a rubber mallet or put a piece of rubber along that bar edge where the slot is and tap it gently but firmly.  Maybe a drop of oil will help loosen up the tightness you've encountered in that slot.

Let me know what's going on with it and I'm sure someone else will respond from SSS

Two Flints

[Hell-Er High Water]

Bill,

Welcome as a Spencer owner.

My rifle is in 56-50 but from the Owner's Manual that came with it it appears that all magazine latches are of the same design.

The magazine tube rotates clockwise 90 degrees when looking from the butt end.  The top rotates about the tube, which is at the lower part of the magazine rear latch plate.  There is a spring loaded catch spring secured to the inside of the butt plate.  It protrudes through a hole in the top rear of the butt plate and is depressed when rotating the magazine tube.

If this catch is bound up in it's hole or is rusted in the hole a good drenching with WD-40 of something similar may free it up.  Use a plastic mallet and gently tap the top of the latch plate in toward the butt plate to help free up the catch in it's hole.

On my rifle I tried taking the screws out of the butt plate and then removing the butt plate and the magazine tube as an assembly but the tube is locked in the magazine and will not allow this.

If the tube is stuck or rusted in the magazine you might try a liberal dose of WD-40 down through the front of the magazine and letting the rifle stand upright to let it work on the problem.

A gentle tap or two with a plastic mallet on the magazine end plate may help to rotate the magazine and get it free.  Once removed you should be able to see where the problem is.

If you didn't get an Owner's Manual with the rifle, Taylor's should be able to furnish one.

I hope that this info helps solve the problem.

HHW

[TexasHighlander]

Got it! It seems I was trying to rotate the wrong end of the bar (hey, I said I was a virgin at this!). Pulled the mag tube and it just reinforces my opinion that the gun is either the best cleaned used gun I've ever seen, or its a virgin too. Hope to get out and put a few rounds through tomorrow, but possible rain in the forecast, so may have to wait a day ot two. HHW and Two Flints - Thanks for the detailed instructions.

BTW, I'm planning on shooting this with either real black, probably GOEX, or a substitute. Anyone got any "pet" loads to recommend? I found a case of 500 nickeled Starline cases on Midway on closeout, so I've got my brass covered. If I use GOEX, should I use 3F or Ctg Grade? All my BP case loading in the past has been for BPCS, so these "tiny" cases are going to take some getting used to!

Gracias Amigos!
Bill
The Teaxs Highlander

[Grapeshot]

Welcome to the fold, pard.  I would stick with FFFg in the .44 Russian.  FFg will work, but I would want a little more velocity.  Depending on which bullet weight you choose to use, check to see if they will feed through the magazine and into the chamber.

I shoot the .56/.50 and it is a bit finicky about overall cartridge length.

Once you have finished shooting, be sure to clean the magazine tube, follower, and mag tube housing.  I didn't, and the mag tube rusted shut on me.  Took a while to get the Magazine tube out and I had to use #800 emmery cloth to remove the rust from the magazine tube and housing.

You might find that the trigger pull to be horrendous, somewhere in the vacinity of 25 pounds.  There is a post by Two Flints that has a remedy for that.  See:  (1) Suggested Ways on How to Lighten the Spencer Trigger Pull: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,7869.0.html   (Edited by Two Flints)

Your purchase of nickled brass for Black Powder is a good one.  The residue cleans off very well.  Just be aware that nickled brass is a bit more brittle than yellow brass and may not last as long before spliting.

Enjoy your new toy.  I know I have enjoyed mine.

[Gunner]

Howdee TH and welcome to the fun!!
My load for .44 Rus is 20 grains of Goex 3f under a 240 grain soft cast slug.
You may need to use a 200 gr slug - you will need to "play" around and see what feeds best in your action.
Also, I found the extractors work best when the pivot screw for the action is screwed down all the way TIGHT.
The action should not be "loosey goosie".
Your mileage may vary.
Good luck and be safe.

Gunner
SSS #1

[TexasHighlander]

You're using the 240 Gr successfully? When I talked to Taylor's smith he said to absolutely ONLY use a 200 Gr bullet due to combination of twist and OAL. What kind of grouping are you getting at what ranges and did you have to modify or remove the extractor?

Bill
TTH