Once Again....BP & Static

[Oldelm]

Howdy folks...

I was going to post this info in the Static & BP thread,...but much to my surprise, that thread has been locked.

I had mentioned in that thread about a friend of mine having experienced a Static / BP accident of his own, and another feller posted more about his old posting of that at the Voy forum awhile back.  Well, it turns out that  my friend has just posted about his accident once again over on the Firing Line forum.................

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204274

Just thought I'd let you all know, ....because it might be a good chance, if anyone's got any questions,  ....you can ask the man himself. His name is Wayne,........he has many years experience with Black Powder, and I have alot of respect for him and his concerns for the safety of other BP users.

Just thought it might be good for us to look at all the evidence,.....on both sides of the  issue , so that individually we can better understand the whole picture and make up our own minds as to how much precaution, if any , we want to take with loading and handling BP relative to Electrostatic Discharge.

Oldelm

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Oldelm,

Good post.  Here's my problem with trying to nail down unplanned ignition of any powder.  It's difficult to pin the unplanned discharge on static electricity, so that's what gets the blame.

Reasonable care is required for ALL powder handling and Holy Black is certainly no exception.

The carpeting question scares me simply because I've seen what's under carpeting when it's pulled up.  A carpeted loading area may have been accumulating powder for a LONG time.  Then, a vaccum cleaner, cigarette ash, dropped soldering iron or any other heat source can ignite the accumulated powder.  These concerns have nothing to do with static.

I sincerely wish there would never be another handloading accident involving unplanned powder ignition of any kind of powder.  Unfortunately, it will happen.  If it's Holy Black, it'll be sensationalized more than if it were heathen smokeyless fad powder.

Wayne makes reasonable sense and wise warning.  Thanks for posting.

DD-DLoS

[sundance44`s]

After reading Waynes story ... ones gotta think about his or her habbits with the Holy Black .. I`ve never had a problem with it like that , and hope i never do .. i`ve never liked wearing a powder horn around my neck .. because of storys like wayne`s .. `i`ve opted to use brass flasks and keep`em in my bag . there`s some unexplained things that can happen , and we wern`t there and its a lot of second hand storys but people are scared or worse that tell these storys so you do pay attion . I`m thinking i do use a plastic funnel on top of my drop tube , maybe not such a good idea ...and there`s a lot of plastic flasks and such on the market for useing with BP .. so maybe i`ll pitch the plastic funnel and get a brass one .. its the only plastic i have around the BP .

[Cuts Crooked]

Like DD I have a problem with "trying to nail down the problem" to blame static! And like Sundance, I gotta wonder about the guys habits around powder?

I figure static made it blow. What else would make powder blow when it's sealed in a container. Well plastic lined wine botas don't make good powder horns.  Hell, when I read what some people type about the powder and static and figure they don't know black well since they are inexperienced with it and actually newbies themselves and type like they know something about it the word "fraud" comes to mind. Man, I don't like to type stuff unless I really know it's true and trusted.

You see? He's setting himself up as an expert while at the same time stating "I figure"..........no proof! A true expert does not make such statements, they rely on proven data. And the use of the word fraud, when applied to those who disagree makes me extremely wary of this guy! Even a lab would not call his accident a static related explosion, unless they had taped the incident so that it could be examined in minute detail. What he had was an unexplained explosion and he thinks it was static related because he has no other explaination...which is not proof, it is supposition! He tries to make his case by stating what he did that might have caused a static buildup...but it still does equate to proof beyond certitude!

Me? I've been using black powder for well over thirty years, often on a daily basis for months at a stretch. I've never seen anything I could say without doubt was a static related explosion of BP, nor have I ever read clear and convincing evidence of such from any reputable powder manufacture or lab. But I am NOT an expert! What I am is a person who has read, researched, and experimented and has concluded that the dangers of static related ignition of BP are often blown out of proportion, but I will not advise anyone to ignore the possibilites. Instead I say that we must each make our own descisions about what level of risk we are willing to accept in our lives.

[rifle]

", but I will not advise anyone to ignore the possibilities".   Good post. That last part you wrote ,that I quoted, tells me you are truely an intelligent person. I bet you would keep wine in a plastic lined wine bota instead of powder.   I bet you would not have a carpet under your loading bench or on it as I've noticed some do.  I think working on wood loading benches and keeping any potential or possible safety hazzard at bay is good policy. I never liked to  play Russian Roulet either.I've read that plastic powder implements and the like,as the jugs for substitutes are made of, are made of a plastic containing carbon so they are anti-static. The guy that had his wine bota of powder blow got himself a powder horn.

[Smokin Gun]

A wiseman takes all accidents possiblities into consideration and remains aware of them. The act of ignoring an incidentis called ingorance. I have been an Explosives Lab Test Tech for destructive and non destrutive testing(failure analysis)...even detinators are tested for failure using  ESD (Electro Static Dischage) equipment, and every one is grounded...so don't take it for granted that it can't happen to you. ESD will blow Black Powder!
For what it's worth...

[Chance]

New rules came into force last year here in the UK that state black powder MUST be sold in plastic containers. I think I am right in saying that ALL powder, black, substitutes and smokeless, is now packaged this way over here. Maximum pack size for smokeless is 1KG and for black ½kg.

[Paladin UK]

Fer Chance.......

I bought a 1kg container of FFg only last week

Sooooo I dont know whether the 1/2kg does apply to the purchase of the Holy Black or to just the storage of same

Paladin (What lurvs the Holy Black) UK

[Chance]

Maybe your dealer had some old stock. Check out the HSE website under "Guidance on Shooters Powders". I made a slight mistake - it's 550gr not ½kilo.