Hollow Base Wad Cutters & Black Powder

[Hell-Er High Water]

I have a pair of 36 cal C&B revolvers being converted to 38 Long Colt.  I'll be shooting these with the unlined, original 36 cal barrels and plan on using HBWC with my smokeless powder loads.  Can the HBWC be used with black powder with a grease cookie and wad over the powder or is there some other method to use this type of bullet with BP?

I don't recall seeing this topic addressed before, but if it has been please point me in the right direction.

Thanks for any input that anyone might have.

HHW

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, HEHW!

I have no hands-on experience with this: I have primarily 44 cal guns.

However, many have reported success using the HBWC in those "slightly off-caliber guns."  As to the grease cookie, well, I haven't heard exactly how it's done.  However, in my opinion, I'd try it both ways I'll mention.  First, load up some with a grease cookie only or perhaps a grease cookie on top of a wad.  Now to me, this seems like this way would ram that grease cookie when fired up into the "skirt" of the bullet, wasting some of the grease and perhaps unbalancing the bullet somewhat.

The best way to me (and the most costly and persnickety way) would be a card or waxed card under the grease cookie followed by another wad, then the bullet.  I'd think that a dry wad would have less chance in sticking in the "skirt", and might even act like an admittedly soft, cardboard piston that would help expand the skirt into the grooves.

Hey - try it; ya got nothing to lose and besides, at SASS or even NCOWS target distances, it may not matter a bit.  At which time, I personally would go for the easier, less expensive method.

Perhaps someone with more experience in this matter will chime in.  If not, try any variation you can think of: half the fun (OK, perhaps less than 1/2  ) of shooting is the learning process that comes with the shooting!

Keep yer powder dry!

[Dick Dastardly]

I've seen it done this way.  Charge the chamber and put in the right size Circle Fly over powder fiber wad.  They were designed with this in mind and Circle Fly has them in any size you might want.  Then, fill that hollow base with all the lube it'll hold and seat it over the charge and wad.  You may also add lube over the top to complete the load if you learn that you need even more lube.

Cookies work, but it may be easier and just as effective to simply fill the hollow bullet base with soft bp lube.  Experience will tell.

Please report back and let us know what works for you.

DD-DLoS

[44caliberkid]

Fiber wad and grease cookie will work, so will Dick's version.  Or you could use original design heeled 38 Colt bullet from Gad, he also has a healed bullet just for conversion revolvers.  here's the link:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,8179.0.html

Have fun.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I use Lyman mould 450229, 155 gr. hollow base bullet in my remmie conversion in .45 ACP.  I just load up the lube grooves with bore butter or SPG.  I tip my LEE hand press upside-down and tap the handle to seat the bullet.  Hopefully this settles the powder properly into the hollow base.  The result is quite an accurate load with 21 gr. 3F GOEX.  I don't foresee a problem if your HB bullet can hold enough lube.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Problems here: smokeless powder is a propellant & BP is an explosive, hence smokeless doesn't obturate bullets very well. Also, on a hollow based bullet you do NOT want the base full of goop as you want it to obturate. Also, the lube in ths base is a waste as it will not distribute lube in the bore. That's why Civil War skirmishers don't put it there.    At low velocities with smokeless the bullets probably won't obturate and you'll be cleaning lead because of gas cutting. I'd shoot BP if I were you. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Cactus Cris]

Here is what I use in my 58's with the R&D 38spl cylinder's.  I cast from a Rapine mold a 140gr HB RN boolit.  Run them thru a .359 sizer (Star) with soft lube.  Dump 15gr 3f BP in case (ya can't get much more in cause the boolit is long-( has 3 lube rings) seat the boolit in and crimp good.  When ya put a wad between the BP & boolit ya defeat the purpose of the HB.  Gas pressure is needed to expand the skirt of the HB so it will make up the difference between .359 (38spl) & the .375 (.36) bore.   I can shoot a 10 stage match w/o a leading problem & the cylinder face I wipe off when I unload (cylinder is out anyway) so there is no fouling problem.
  Worse thing is the Rapine mold is a "1 at a time" & takes a while to cast up 100+ for just 1 match.
  I started with Hornady HBWC & found they leaded up the bore after 30 or so rnds.  Don't know why.  Maybe they were not as soft a lead as what I cast my HB. with.  Know I have 4-5 boxes of them somewhere.

[Montana Slim]

My Pa uses HBWC in his numerous unlined .38 conversions. Ocassionally, he even allows me to shoot them. Quite decent accuracy can be obtained with the bullet & either smokeless or BP. Had fair success on 50 yd gongs with em' too.  I smear some of my BP lube into the hollow base when loaded with BP. Seems the got gas & pressure from BP melts, moves and distributes it out of the way of the lead expansion. My Pa generally prefers the "other" powder & reports no leading problems.

Tested several other bullets including standard solid base bullets - these worked surprisingly well in typical 10-15 yd CAS situations.
Rapine HB bullet gave best accuracy.... a slight edge over the HBWC, but the Rapine are expensive to buy / time consuming to cast, therefore he uses the HBWC.
Forgot the brand of HBWC he's buying, but he did find one brand worked better than the others he tried.

Slim