When did US Cavalry troops shave their beards?

Mustang Gregg · November 30, 2005, 06:58:54 AM

DANG! No beards allowed these days (except per certain exceptions in AR 670-1).
Anybody know just when the Army made their NCO's & officer shave off beards?
I reckon it was around the time of needing protective masks(

).

What about sailors? Sub duty?

Mustang Gregg, PSG
Trp F, 1-124th Cav

Silver Creek Slim · November 30, 2005, 09:14:29 AM

Sometime after the unCivil War. Others will be able to tell you specifically.

Slim

St. George · November 30, 2005, 09:19:02 AM

Here's more than anyone needs to know...

In general - Cavalry favored moustaches - big, drooping ones like you see on the 'Old Bill' statue at Frot Riley and on the cover of 'Armor' .

The style harkens back to European horse soldiers - notably English and French Cavalry and Dragoons.

Early ones were generally described as 'Dragoon' moustaches and were pretty impressive - reaching serious length and waxed.

Smaller ones - the big non-drooping-type - were known as 'Guards' moustaches.

Infantry - when not clean-shaven - favored beards.

Facial hair went with the times, for the most part - with the military's (and society's)general 'acceptance' dying out as better razors were developed.

Eventually - the Gillette folks came up with their replaceable-bladed 'Safety Razor' - making it far easier for a man to shave himself - as opposed to having a barber do it.

'Way back when' - barbers were sometimes the only one who 'could' shave a beard - many men not having a 'facility' with the straight-edge razor, so shaving was a sometime thing and difficult unless one lived in town.

By the time of the Mexican Border Expedition and WWI - the far smaller moustache was seen on older soldiers - but the 'look' of the military was clean-shaven.

The Marines - like the other Services - had their own idiosyncracies - but in general - if you see a post-WWI Marine with facial hair beyond a moustache - he's overseas.

The Navy often would permit sailors to grow out their beards while on a Cruise - most notable with submariners - but I'm not certain that that's still a policy.

AR 670-1's old policy stated that the moustache 'could not extend beyond the fullest portion of the upper lip'.

That meant a 'trooper could grow a pretty good-sized 'stache, and the best examples of that are photos of chopper jockeys, doorgunners and crewchiefs during Viet-Nam.

And 'all' were 'legal'...

Imagine that...

Of course - this was also back when Guard/Reserve soldiers were authorized wigs...

This was back in the days when the AR was printed on a slick-paper 'magazine' format.

When they printed it later on - on the 'newsprint' paper - thanks to the many changes happening in the latter '70's - the moustache became smaller - 'not to exend beyond the corners of the mouth' and the information was difficult to locate - being hidden deeply inside the changes.

Still - certain 'styles' remain.

In SOCOM, you'll see more moustaches - thanks to their missions that value assimilation into a population where facial hair is common to the males.
It's called 'relaxed grooming standards' and is a privilege that's frequently abused.

Aviators will still sport one, from time to time - as will some Infantry.

Alas - thanks to the ever-present threat of NBC warfare - beards are no longer seen, since a good seal to the mask can't be achieved.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Major Matt Lewis · November 30, 2005, 10:39:41 AM

WOW,

What a ....hairy...subject to broach.....

Mustang Gregg · November 30, 2005, 11:52:18 AM

Muchas Gracias, Saint George!
I reckoned you would have some fine knowlege on the subject.
This is great info.

Respectfully,
Mustang Gregg

RRio · November 30, 2005, 01:54:15 PM

I know when I was in('70-'78 USN), they did not allow beards becasue you could not get a proper seal of the gas mask to your face if you had a beard.

Grizzle Bear · December 01, 2005, 07:52:41 AM

Quit shaving when I got out of boot camp (USCG 71-75) and my face ain't felt a razor since!

Grizzle Bear

Grapeshot · December 01, 2005, 01:39:21 PM

Beards in the Army were going out of style by the start of the Spanish American war and by the time of the Boxer Rebellion, you hardly saw them amongst the troops or the officers. World war one finally put the the beard off limits for the soldier as he couldn't get a good seal on his gas mask with any degree of facial har present.

You can't fight the enemy if you can't breathe without dying.

Mustang Gregg · December 01, 2005, 03:09:06 PM

Grapeshot:
Your answer was my guess.
Mustang Gregg

Gripmaker · December 01, 2005, 10:54:02 PM

Had a dandy of a moustach while in SF in late 60s and early 70s. SOCOM not only allowed them under certain circumstances but even encouraged them. In 70 I went before promo board sporting a handlebar that measured about 8" per side including a full loop in the curl. 1st Lewey started to hassle me until a local Major recommended he cease as I could quote more Regs. than he had hair on his head. It was hard not being cockey with friends like that. Got the promo to E-6 but turned it and career status down due to difference of opinion about getting left at hot LZ in SSEA. Apparently choppers and pilots are more important than we SF types no matter what we had just accomplished. Never had much like for O types or politicians after that. Must admit that the cream of the crop are now in GAF. Think it would have been fun to serve with US Scout as I believe he is a straight shooter...no pun intended.

ColonelFlashman · December 13, 2005, 03:25:49 AM

During the Victorian era, the American & British Armies favoured what is known as "Cavalry Whiskers", side wiskers that are grown to interconnect w/ the moustache.
For those that don't know what they are, look @ my Picture, this is a subdued Variation compaired to the Cheek to Jowl versions that leave only the Chin from the lower lip on down clean shaven.

St. George · December 13, 2005, 01:03:30 PM

And if his avatar isn't clear enough - another good example is shown in the movie 'Gettysburg' - worn by Thomas Chamberlain - the younger brother of Joshua Chamberlain.

Sans moustache - they became known as 'Burnsides' - after Ambrose Burnside favoring the look.

Later - the term was corrupted to 'sideburns'.

Scouts Out!

ColonelFlashman · December 14, 2005, 07:01:45 PM

OR, you can go to my Personal Profile & cheque out my Pix.

ColonelFlashman · February 12, 2006, 01:07:31 AM

Quote from: Grapeshot on December 01, 2005, 01:39:21 PM
Beards in the Army were going out of style by the start of the Spanish American war and by the time of the Boxer Rebellion, you hardly saw them amongst the troops or the officers. World war one finally put the the beard off limits for the soldier as he couldn't get a good seal on his gas mask with any degree of facial har present.

You can't fight the enemy if you can't breathe without dying.

I've come across quite a few Pix of Officers, especially in the M.C. wearing subdued versions of "Cavalry Wiskers" during the Span-Am War, extending up to 10 years after that & "Kaiser Bill" mustaches were also popular.

Red Hooker · February 14, 2006, 12:32:12 PM

Quote from: Mustang Gregg on November 30, 2005, 06:58:54 AM
What about sailors? Sub duty?

Mustang Gregg, PSG
Trp F, 1-124th Cav

Don't know, but would suspect not, what with lotsa fresh water being available from the nuclear power plant. In the old days it was what fresh water you could carry, or make from distillers which ran off heat from the engine mufflers. Even then, priority went to refilling the battery cells.
Red Hooker