New Conversion Coming!

[Rapid Lee]

Check it out!  Pic taken in the Cimarron booth at the SHOT Show by Gunblast.com:



I want (at least) one!

Rapid

[Scattered Thumbs]

Interesting.

Is that a 6 or a 5 shooter? The original conversions on the .44 Army were 5 shooters.

Is it sold complete or just the conversion? I can't make a conversion cause it's ilegal this side of the pond, but a converted gun from the get go is another story since it's a firearm from the start I wouldn't be making one.

[law dawg]

If it's from Cimarron it would have to be a complete conversion, the only conversions they have are the '51 navy and '60 army.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Excuse me.
The original Army loading/chambering in the Rem. was indeed a 5 shooter but it was 46 Rimfire. 44CF and 44RF were always 6 shooters, 45 LC were 5 shooters the 5 shooters were 5 instaed of 6 due to Cyl. Dia.

[Scattered Thumbs]

Excuse me.
The original Army loading/chambering in the Rem. was indeed a 5 shooter but it was 46 Rimfire. 44CF and 44RF were always 6 shooters, 45 LC were 5 shooters the 5 shooters were 5 instaed of 6 due to Cyl. Dia.

The originals  with the  backplate conversions were 5 shooters, what  caliber were they?
What were the dimensions of the .44CF and 44RF cartridges? Did Remington change their barrels? This part of the history  has allways been a bit fuzzy to me and I really would like to  know.
 

[44caliberkid]

The original 5 shot conversions were .46 rimfire.  The 6 shot .44's did not change the barrel, but used a healed bullet.  The base of the bullet is smaller and fits inside the case, while the external part of the bullet was .450 -.454 diameter.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

None of the 44CF or 44 RF bbls were changed in ANY of the conversions. They were .451 Grooves across the board, I have seen several different maker conversions in 44 CF or 44RF(all were 44 Cal BP to begin with. none of those bbls were changed, I have seen 2 46RF Army conversions and I would guess that they did not change the bbl out, but those my have been re-rifled to 46 Cal. I'll look in McDowells Book and see if he states anything about the BBls being re-rifled or not. Perhaps they were fitted with new bbls as they were a factory conversion for the Army. I haven't a clue about that. I do know that the five shooters were that way due to the Dia of the brass in each instance. the 44 were small enough to remain 6 shooters(either new made cylinderor drilled out BP cylinder. (the 5 shooters were all new made cylinders for the obvious reasons.

OK according to McDowell, the 46 Cal rF required no work to the bbl as they were over size anyway. The 46 Rimfire cartridge was the Martin. McDowell's book pg. 54 top left column. It states furtehr on that the 46 RF cylinders would accept the 44RF cartridges readily.
Cool Huh? a two caliber Pistol handy if you ran out of 46 RF and all that was available were 44 RF!

Thanks ST, you let me learn something new today...looks like I read MCDowell's Book again this evening...at least the Remington parts.

[Oldelm]

Hey Charlie,...just wondering,....in your McDowell's book in the Rem section,.....do you notice any safety notches or the like on the.44CF models?... The conversions with the hinged loading gate and recoil plate dovetailed into the frame.  I've been wondering how one could safely carry a fully loaded Rem conversion of that type and keep the firing pin safely off  a primer with all chambers full.  Did one just have to leave a chamber empty to rest the hammer down on? 

[Marshal Halloway]

Cimarron introduced three new conversions at SHOT. The 1858 6 shot 45 Colt with spare percussion cylinder (this one has original style cartridge ejector), the (this one is BIG MEDICINE) Richards Type 2 6 shot 45 Colt and the 'MAN with no NAME' seen on the right is a copy of the conversions used in the 'GOOD BAD & UGLY'.

Btw... Cimarron also introduced the Cimarron 'CENTENNIAL' model 1876.

Also a new octagon to round 18.5 inch with full magazine, checkered pistol gripped model 1873 they call the 'TEXAS BRUSH POPPER'. All their new stuff will be on the web in a week or so.

All of these new models are Cimarron/Uberti projects. They supplied originals and advice as needed to bring these to the market.

One more note, the conversion ring on the 1858 is not fixed to the frame and Mike Harvey at Cimarron thinks it may conflict with Walt Kirsts patent. They told Uberti that it had to be fixed to the frame but that did not happen. This will have to be changed before production begins. The problem is a minor one.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Oldelm.
Yes there are two photos of 46 RF On pages 52 and 53 Fig 3-49,3-50 show a Smith & Wesson Factory conversion in 46 RF. with wide notches behind the cartridge chamber and a small notch between them. This one has the slim dovetailed recoil shield.

Another picture is on page 72 , This one has the thick gated recoil ring but it is a new model Navy, it does havr the safety notches is is 38 RF. it has the ejector. it is a factory conversion that looks like the Remington adds for conversion NMN pistols.
ity appears that the RF cylinders had the notches and the RF cylinders didn't.......

The rest of the pictured Rem. pistols apparently had to drop the hammer between the chambers to carry "safe" or carry with one empty.

I carry my Colt Clones or others parked between the chambers and I know they won't "fire if dropped". Heck you could throw them across the room and they won't fire. That and a thong on the holster keeps me plenty safe. If I wanted complete(??) safety I''d carry one chamber empty, and I do when warrented. If I can't do it in 5, i sure ain't gonna  do it in 6.

[Oldelm]

Charlie.............thanks for checking that out in the McDowell  book. I checked in Dennis Adler's Cartridge  Conversion book and found similar results,.....safety notches on the RF cyls.,...but none on the later CF cyls. I guess drop the hammer between chambers,  or carry one chamber empty would work just fine.

[Scattered Thumbs]

OK according to McDowell, the 46 Cal rF required no work to the bbl as they were over size anyway. The 46 Rimfire cartridge was the Martin. McDowell's book pg. 54 top left column. It states furtehr on that the 46 RF cylinders would accept the 44RF cartridges readily.
Cool Huh? a two caliber Pistol handy if you ran out of 46 RF and all that was available were 44 RF!

Maybe that "one size fits all" attitude from Remington made Colt prevail in the revolver business. Those grooves were surely a mile deep  going from .463 land to land to .451 groove to groove. The accuracy department of those conversions must have been terrible.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I need to look at a 46 RF cartridge dwg of the Martin. it sounds as if they were jamming a .460(?) thru a .451 Groove and they let the forcing cone size the bullet, but I cannot say. I could also be that the 46 RF was Case driven, meaning that it was 46 Cal case.  I do know that the original 44 Cal Rem bbl was ,451 Grooves and approx .440 lands.
Soooo. then they would be extremely accurate. not the other way around throwing an undersized bullet down a "rainspout".
I Didn't get a chance to read McDowels Book on the Rem. Conversions last night. I think there is a dwg. of some of the RF and CF cartridges in the book. Boy I need to read it again.

So the 46RF would be larger than the BBl grooves and the 44CF(not todays 44 colt) would be finwe as it had .451 Drive bands on the bullet. so , in truth both were/could be fired in the 46RF.

[Pappy Hayes]

The new conversion from Cimarron with the spare percussion cylinder, is it sold with the conversion cylinder installed or the percussion cylinder installed? I was wondering if it is sold with the percussion cylinder installed, can it be purchases as a black powder revolver, of is it sold as a regular revovler and controlled by the BATF?

[Fox Creek Kid]

Remember, all ORIGINAL FACTORY Remington conversions had the thin conversion backplate.    It doesn't look like this one has it from the photo, or am I wrong?   

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

 FCK,
You are correct as of McDowell's book at time of printing, nothick  loading gate or thick recoil shield had been found in NMA44 and 46 Cal.
There were Factory advertisements of this type NMA, but none had been found and I don't know if any has surfaced since McDowell published.however, the New Model Navy factory conversion had a thick recoil shield and a loading gate. There are several in McDowells Book.