Reloading 56-50 (Armi Sport) on a Dillon?

[sbye]

I am looking to start reloading 56-50 and I already have a Dillon 550C.

I was reading the pinned post beginners guide to reloading 56-50 and saw it mentioned being unable to use the Dillon press due to the rim diameter.

That thread is almost 20 years old, so I am not sure if the Dillon 50-70 plate came out after the post, or if that is what Two Flints was using. I reached out to Dillon earlier this month and have not received a response. I guess I am just trying to see if anyone has been able to reload on a Dillon with the following shellplate.

50-70 Shellplate: https://www.dillonprecision.com/12310

New platform required for 50-70 (No idea if it would be necessary for 56-50: https://www.dillonprecision.com/12407

Anyway, I'm close to just ordering them to see if it is possible, but I figured I would check here to see if it has already been tried. So, has anyone successfully loaded on a Dillon? Or do I need to buy a new press?

[El Supremo]

Hello, Sbye:

Dillon might be light-staffed for a few days after the SHOT Show.

Sorry if the following is obvious. 

There are two case rim diameters, and possibly different chamber OAL's for Spencer's:

Originals in 56-56 and 56-50, and Romano's in 56-50 use a generic, shortened 50 Sharps case with a nominal rim OD of between .640" to .650" to enable reliable extraction with a blade extractor. Starline 50-70/90 brass drawings and my stuff directly from them conform and work well.

Interestingly, I have also encountered original and Romano Spencer's with chamber total chamber OAL's, including case rim cut of as much as .100" longer than the usual case OAL of 1.16"! Cases with an OAL of 1.16" shoot well in the long chambers.  No one has been able to tell me why the chamber seems too long.

Italian 56-50's use a different case with a rim OD of around .630", and have the Lane, 6:00 relative extractor.
The Starline "56-50" cases are at .630", and often do not consistently extract in originals and Romano's.

So, which gun may matter for both the case and reloading press shell holder.

The Dillon part should be a close match to a specific rim OD.

Rim OD's can vary a couple thou's on a particular rim as the rim is rotated to different spots. This is insignificant.

There have been variations in internal die dimensions for these cartridges, particularly for the expander plugs and bullet seating/crimp details. Best to be sure the dies match your cases and chamber. 

Please share what happens. Thanks.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[sbye]

Thanks El Supremo! I have an Armi Sport Spencer Carbine chambered in 56-50. I am planning to use Starling 56-50 brass to reload.

I recently purchased the RCBS Legacy 56-50 dies for it, which I believe were the correct dies for the Starline brass/Armi Sport rifles.

[El Supremo]

Nice, Sbye:
If cannot find the Starline 56-50 cases, try the 50 Sharps after reducing the rim OD.  If stuck, no pun, for cases, "lemme no".  Haha.
You are the first I've seen use a Dillon.  I use a 1960's Rockchucker with trued ram and CH4D dies w custom expanding plug to not overwork case mouths. Gotta anneal, esp. if cut back longer cases! Smiles.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Arizona Trooper]

Armi Sport cases can also be made from 8x50 Lebel and 348 Win cases, but it's a lot of work. These cases will shoot just fine in originals, but will only extract in M-1867s with the Lane extractor.

[sbye]

Well I did get a response from Dillon, so I may just end up getting a new press for 56-50.

Dillon's response:
"It would probably slip out if you use the 50-70 shellplate, as the rim is .660 inch.  Unfortunately, we don't have a good solution for loading 56-50."

[El Supremo]

Hello, Sbye:

There are variations in cases and chambers depending on maker/gun, and with "Agencies".  If wish drawing photo's, please PM me your email address.

The SAAMI drawing of 50-70/90 Sharps case rim OD shows .630" -.010". I have found this WRONG vs. STARLINE's drawing! SAAMI classifies this as an obsolete case, and has not revised/corrected the error, which case makers tell me SAAMI knows.

The EU "CIP" (SAAMI EQUIVALENT) for the ITALIAN chamber and case designed specifically for Armisport Spencer, in 2019,is .635" with chamber cut of .638" —— for the Starline 56-56 ARMISPORT SPENCER case/chamber.

STARLINE's CORRECT and widely accepted drawings show:
50-70 Sharps rim OD of .653". This matches the several batches I've bought directly from them, pre-Covid.

Rocky Mountain Ctg 56-50 "Romano" of .650".
Rocky Mountain Ctg 56-50 ———————— of .645".

It seems that the Dillon dim of .660" has extra room, possibly for proper function in its press.  But, maybe Dillon is thinking of wiggle with the Armisport specific case rim OD of .635".

The Dillon's .660" is only .005'ish a side, more than traditional case rims, which isn't much.  I'd send Dillon some .650" ones for a functional test.  If you need a few Starline 50-90's, for Dillon to use, please let me know. Smiles.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Hair Trigger Jim]

I guess the question there would be whether Sbye can use the .50-90 cases in the Armi Sport, or is required to use the Starline .56-50 with a smaller rim.

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Hair Trigger Jim:

I'd forgotten his Armisport aspect. Oop's.

There is a chance the larger 50-70 rim can be reduced and the rest of the case will fit the Armisport chamber. Only testing will indicate because, drawings aside, there have been reports from gunsmiths and barrel lining 'smiths of variations in Armisport 56-50 chambers over many years.

The .630 will rattle in the .660" holder.  My My Starline 56-50 cases have been sent to shooters. 

Prob time to politely ping on Starline for a run of both cases.  I'm still waiting for 50-70's from confirmed back order of over two years ago. Smiles.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny