How accurate?

[willy]

Was wondering about the accuracy of the colt open top revolvers.
I consider 2" groups as accurate for me at 25 yards with a handgun .
I can do this from a bench rest with adjuster sites S&W revolvers.
With my Uberti and ASM copies of the SAA the groups open up to 3-4"
I have two Uberti 1875 Remingtons that both shoot 2" groups right along with my best S&W revolvers.

I also have a Uberti 1851 36 cal that I tweaked the sights to get it to hit poa with poi amd it to will shoot 2"-3" grouos!

So I was wondering how accurate the open tops are in 44 or 45 calibers.

What can be expected out of them.
I would be happy if they could group under 4 " at 25 yards.

[Coffinmaker]

Willy 

Attz gonna depend (no not the ones inna plastic package).  I have own'd and set-up a lot of Open Tops.  Two inch groups are not unreasonable.  However, the first thing you would have to do is take the "slop" out of the guns.  They have abysmal Barrel to Arbor fit and that has to be addressed so guns go together solidly.  This applies to ALL of Uberti's Open Top designed guns.  Whether they be Percussion or Cartridge, that Barrel to Arbor fit must be fix'd.  Then your dow to finding the right bullet/load combination the gun likes.  It is the Way.

[Galloway]

I have two without arbor modifications that will do under 4'' at 25 yards, but the poi is roughly 3'' high at 12yards, 6'' high at 25yards, and 12-15'' high at 50yards good luck

[DeaconKC]

Hiya Willy, I have had very consistent results in six different .45 Colt guns [2 conversions, 2 Schofields and 2 rifles] using a 200 grain RNFP from Bustin' Head Lead or the same bullet from Bullets by Scarlett, under 7.5 grains of Unique. Following advice from Coffinmaker, I make sure to keep the .45 Colt loads to strong loads to avoid/cut down on blowby, this load runs two day events without fouling problems too.

[River City John]

A friend and former cowboy shooter once remarked- "I never heard one of Bill Hickok's victims complain about his accuracy."

[Coffinmaker]

Ah Deacon 

Ima mite curious how you manage reliable ignition with the projectile "under" the 7.5Gr of Unique??  Um, Ah Snicker Snicker chortle chortle Geshundhite   

[Coffinmaker]

Anyway 

Speaking of accuracy, THE most accurate handguns I have ever owned were made by Armi San Marco.  ASM's Conversions were abysmal for quality control but boy would they ever shoot.  From a rest, after arbor correction, my .38 Richards conversions from ASM would shoot a five shot cloverleaf group at 25 yards.  At times I wish I had never sold 'em on.  Oh well.

[DeaconKC]

Ah Deacon 

Ima mite curious how you manage reliable ignition with the projectile "under" the 7.5Gr of Unique??  Um, Ah Snicker Snicker chortle chortle Geshundhite 

Smarty-pants!




And NYAH!

[willy]

Willy 

Attz gonna depend (no not the ones inna plastic package).  I have own'd and set-up a lot of Open Tops.  Two inch groups are not unreasonable.  However, the first thing you would have to do is take the "slop" out of the guns.  They have abysmal Barrel to Arbor fit and that has to be addressed so guns go together solidly.  This applies to ALL of Uberti's Open Top designed guns.  Whether they be Percussion or Cartridge, that Barrel to Arbor fit must be fix'd.  Then your dow to finding the right bullet/load combination the gun likes.  It is the Way.

I am  familiar with the arbor fit on the Uberti revolvers.
I addressed the problem on all my cap and ball Uberti revolvers.

[willy]

I have two without arbor modifications that will do under 4'' at 25 yards, but the poi is roughly 3'' high at 12yards, 6'' high at 25yards, and 12-15'' high at 50yards good luck

I could remedy that ...thanks for the reply

[Mako]

Quote from: Galloway on Yesterday at 08:18:01 PM

I have two without arbor modifications that will do under 4'' at 25 yards, but the poi is roughly 3'' high at 12yards, 6'' high at 25yards, and 12-15'' high at 50yards good luck


I could remedy that ...thanks for the reply

Yep, Galloway needs a front sight that is .07" to .073" taller if he is talking about 1860s with 8 inch barrels and the rear sight on the hammer.  Harder to do with a blade than the round front sight on the Navy models and the Remingtons.

Typical Army thinking, have a revolver made that has the sights set for 75 or 100yds instead of the distances they would be used at.

~Mako

[Mako]

Willy,
To your original post, the accuracy other than for a fighting pistol can be all over the place with the barrels held on as they are and with the way that CoffinMaker(one wurd) pointed out that Uberti insists on making the Arbor lengths (and sometimes bore to arbor fits).

I have seen individuals use feeler gauges to set the gap between the barrel and cylinder each time they reassemble the revolver trying to keep the barrel parallel to the arbor.  They press the wedge in with their thumbs while having the shim in between.  The problem is that it won't stay unless you press the wedge in a bit more and then while shooting it tends to loosen up. 

I've seen a wedge drop out (unbeknownst to the shooter) and the barrel get pushed forward upon firing.  Fortunately no harm done to man or the beastie he was shooting.  He thought the gun had exploded, but the barrel actually stayed on the arbor, it was sitt'n catawampus)  That is a technical descriptive geometry term used by the finer carpenters of coffins and other such fine furniture.

And, CoffinMaker(one wurd) is right about the malady is not confined to Uberti cap and ball revolvers.  I have some 71/72 Open Tops and a couple of Richards Type II conversions and they also had short Arbors.  I only have one Uberti (an 1861 Model) that actually had an Arbor that was almost correct.  Probably .002" short, I left it alone.

As an aside, I had one 1860 that shot about 5 inches high at 15 yards, it needed a .100" taller sight. But that is how Colt's originally produced them to U.S. Army requirements.  I find it interesting the Army abandoned that philosophy upon accepting the '73 SAA, those don't seem to shoot a foot high at 50 yards.
 
You can stabilize and align the barrel with a spacer (There are lock washers {"spring washer"} you can use as spacers) in the arbor hole; or a built up arbor using a set screw, insert on the tip (exempli gratia the instructions from Pettifogger) or welding material on the end of the arbor.  That works well and I think I can almost guarantee you will get a 4" capable pistola at 25 yrds.

I believe all of Mine will do 4 inches at 25 yds if I do my part.  But, I want mine sighted in for 15 yards.  Them's pistol fight'n distances, otherwise turn and run away...

~Mako

[RoyceP]

So my take on the Uberti (Cimarron) reproduction is that you will have to experiment with ammo to see what yours likes. Mine is a 44 caliber, it was listed on the box as 44 Special, Colt and Russian. Mine is very accurate shooting 44 Russian with 200 grain bullets over a mid - range load of Unique powder. It was super low with 44 Special factory ammo, like 5" below POA.

[Coffinmaker]

RoyceP 

Yep.  Open Tops be a mite fickle.  Understand, they will shoot well with almost anything you feed 'em.  However, if you're after little itty bitty groups, you'll have to play around with load/bullet combinations to find what the gun likes best.

I have a much more simplistic approach these days.  I simply load APP 3f to the bullet base.  Any bullet.  Although my preference for a .38 runs to the 125Gr Truncated Cone.  Very Accurate.  For the .44 I like a 160Gr RNFP, also quite accurate.  The .45 gets Tricky.  I really like Cowboy 45 Special cases with 130Gr Barnstormer bullets in .45 Colt chambers.  In my conversions, I am running 45 ACP cylinders, with 45 ACP cases (natch) and Barnstormer bullets.  Both of which are very accurate.  They shoot better than I do.