From C&B to Conversion

[45 Dragoon]

Ahhh Crow Choker, my mistake .  .  .    and I agree !! I know it's the "expensive" way to get a converted horse pistol, but what are we to do? You're right, Uberti doesn't offer a factory version so .  .  .  we have no choice.  But, I gotta say, a converted Dragoon is just nothing shy of an amazing beast!  Thanks for the kind words.

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

I would like to share .... ALL of my Cap Guns are set up to load "Off the Gun". The wedge is very easy to set and remove.  The bore in the barrel lug has been polished as has the front of the arbor to promote easy removal.  I have no trouble with the R&D type of two piece conversion cylinder.  It only takes just a few seconds.

The Kirst Konverter gated conversion is UBER KOOL.  They are NOT just a "drop in" proposition.  They require some serious work.  They also require laying out some serious Folding Green.  There is also a serious CAVEAT.  Once you have cut the Cartridge Slot in the frame, you have MANUFACTURED a firearm.  You are allowed to do that.  For YOURSELF.  You must be very careful if you decide to sell it, not to run afoul BATFE.  If you don't have a license to manufacture, everything MUST go thru an FFL.  The BATFE DOES NOT have a sense of humor and WILL NOT take prisoners.

If you are curious, scroll up to STORM where pictures of my latest Gated Conversions reside.

[blackpowder]

Sure.  Happy to oblige.  Just to review, your Centaure .44 has approximately a .451 bore which makes it actually a .45 (Don't ask how that happened).

If you desire a compatible modern replica to play with, you only have two choices at present.  Uberti built guns and Pietta built guns.  To function satisfactorily, both will require a little set up.  The Uberti will require more "work" than a Pietta.  My personal suggestion would be a Pietta.  Pietta offer lots of barrel and choices of configuration.  One of which is an 1851 pattern gun in .44 which is actually a 45.  Uberti leave you with one configuration, an 1860 replica.

For converting, you only have one option with a .44 percussion gun.  You can convert to a .45 in which you can shoot 45 Colt, 45 Schofield and Cowboy 45 Special cartridges.  You have two ways to convert, an R & D style two piece converter or a Gated Conversion from Kirst Konverters.  The gated conversion is NOT simple.  The R & D type is pretty much "Drop In" with only minor fitting required.

You can only convert to one caliber.  45 is it.  My personal recommendation is Pietta.  More choices.  By the way, your Centaure is one of the best made replicas on the planet.  Take care of it.

@coffinmaker
Much obliged for the explanations. As others agree as well, I will leave the Centaure as it is - a C&B gun. Since it is a not so common model I wouldn't want to do any conversion work to it (least of all cutting a loading gate into the frame). I will convert a Pietta 1851 Navy clone in .44 RB to .45LC. I gather from you and others this is the only or at least the best option. I purchased this gun today from a friend. It is a 2015 manufacture new in the box (he decided percussion guns are too much work to shoot and got a Uberti Colt M1873 in .45LC instead). The Pietta seems good to go out of the box. Locks up good and cycles well with no apparent timing issues. How can I tell if it needs any additional set up, fitting or work done to it? I will shoot it and test it this weekend at the range.

Thank you everyone !

[Coffinmaker]

A Pietta replica of the SAA is a fairly competent gun right out of the box.  Normally, all a Pietta needs to be fun to play with is an after-market Main Spring.

Have Fun!!

[blackpowder]

greets!

It's been a while but after long consideration I decided to leave both my C&B guns, the Centaure and the Pietta, as they are and just buy a new open top conversion from Uberti (seems to be the only real choice). I checked Taylor's in VA as some have suggested. They have a nice homepage but almost nothing in stock. Anyone have a suggestion who stocks a good selection of open top Colt clones ?
THANKS!

 

[Coffinmaker]

Far as I know .... you only have a choice of two.  Taylors and Cimarron.  Try Cimarron.  Do keep in mind, a brandy Knew-two-ewe Open Top will require some ministrations.  Please refer to the excellent tutorial authored by the esteemed Larsen E. Pettifogger on "The Open Range."

[Northern Nomad]

This is the time of year when Cabella's and Midway C&B pistols go on sale. And I start the internal dialog...

[Coffinmaker]

Resistance is Futile.   YOU   WILL   BE   ASSIMILATED

[Drydock]

https://www.midwayusa.com/handguns/br?cid=23851&targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-23851%2B4294920261%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1

I have found MIdway to be very easy to order from, with many usable FFLs already on file, reasonable pricing.

[paperchaser]

greets!

It's been a while but after long consideration I decided to leave both my C&B guns, the Centaure and the Pietta, as they are and just buy a new open top conversion from Uberti (seems to be the only real choice). I checked Taylor's in VA as some have suggested. They have a nice homepage but almost nothing in stock. Anyone have a suggestion who stocks a good selection of open top Colt clones ?
THANKS!

Check out Cimarron;  just ordered 1860 Richards Transition; Type II; 38 Spcl; 51/2" barrel

[JimCunn]

My Belgian Centaure Serial # is 2865.
I bought it about 1966 or 1967.
It's a nice design, but not a faithful reproduction of the Colt.
Mine has always had a problem with chainfires.  Twice, all six at once.
When it does that, it ejects the wedge and blows the loading lever latch receiver off to parts unknown. Also loosens the arbor.
I'm currently repairing it, but also converting to .45 acp with a Kirst Converter.
Biggist two issues are:
1) that the latch receiver is larger than any replacement on the market, so I'll need to weld up my barrel dovetail and cut a new dovetail to fit the Uberti.
2) the bolt width in the Uberti is 5% wider than the Centaure bolt, so the Kirst bolt slots are too wide, resulting in sloppy lockup. Solution to that is to scratch build a wider bolt if the Uberti won't fit.

Much to my surprise, timing is satisfactory.
Tightening up the loose arbor will be tedious, but is not difficult.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Hi there JC: Accourding to the serial number your Centaure #2865 was manufactured as early as around 1963.
Was she "preowned" when you purchased her?
Long Johns Wolf

[Johnson Barr]

I had one of those 'too many go-offs at one time' events; 5 of 6 in a 1860 model. Sent the ram and creeping lever down range several feet. Turns out that the factory installed nipples were too long. Under recoil the capped nipples impacted the recoil shield and detonated the adjacent chambers. A not so pleasant  moment.

[Cap'n Redneck]

There is potential for a similar accident with the R&D conversion cylinders when fitted into the frame of Remington New Model Army ("1858's") replicas or the Uberti Remington M1866 Revolving carbines.
The firing-pins CAN impact the lower rear corner of the frame under recoil and set off the six o'clock cartridge.  The easy fix is to relieve this corner a little with a Dremel-tool.

[Coffinmaker]

Aside from the instance of "too long" nipples, Chainfire can be attributed to way percussion revolver are loaded "maybe."  To date, no one has been able to reliably duplicate chainfire in front of a high speed camera, so there are differing opine about the cause.  I normally suspect errors in loading??

Beyond that, I would have to suggest leaving your Centaure alone as a percussion revolver, whilst shopping around for a well priced Pietta 1860 replicant.  The Pietta will require much less prep work for the Kirst Konverter and will accept the Kirst "two step" hand.  Best of luck in any endeavor.

[JimCunn]

"Accourding to the serial number your Centaure #2865 was manufactured as early as around 1963.
Was she "preowned" when you purchased her?"

No, I'm first owner.  Bought it from Dixie Gun Works about a year after I graduated from College.

It was a nice looking pistol, but not a particularly accurate reproduction of the Colt.  At the time, I was told that was deliberate to keep them from being turned into fakes. Three issues that are a bit of a nuisance are
1) there are no lever latch recievers that are big enough to fit without modification
2) The narrow bolt and bolt slot.
3)  There are no replacement wedges that fit

It has been over thirty years since I last fired it.  Mine chainfired from the rear, not the front, with both cylinders and with multiple replacement nipples, including shortening to prevent cap impact on the recoil shield. My other black powder pistols have not had that problem.  It may be operator error, but why on only one of several c&b pistols?

Re a potential conversion, I'm thinking the most practical solution to the bolt width issue is to machine my extra Centaure cylinder (with narrow bolt slot) to fit the Kirst loading gate and the .45 acp (headspacing on the front of the case).

[Long Johns Wolf]

I assume the American smiths watching this thread will come up with recommendation addressing solutions of your problems.
I had a couple of Centaures converted to shoot metal cartridges by a smith in Austria.
Part of the conversion was removal of the loading lever catch.
I have no idea what he did with these parts which are no longer needed.
Long Johns Wolf

[JimCunn]

In my case, I retain my loading lever and latch receiver.  It takes about a minute to convert between cartridge and c&b.
I tend to do my own smithing.
Long Johns, what do you guys in Europe do when you need to replace a Centaure wedge or latch receiver?

[Long Johns Wolf]

The smiths over here familiar with C&B revolvers incl. Centaure - less than a handful - rework the existing wedges to fit.
In another situation the wedge got lost and the smith made a new one from scratch.
Other smiths not so familiar with the Belgians cement a sheet of metal to the sides of the wedges which seems to work.
Regarding the loading lever catch: I had one of those shooting loose in a Centaure Long Cylinder Conversion loaded with soft nitro .44 Colt loads.
First attempt was to fix the catch with a dental laser ... which worked for three or four round ... but was no permanent cure.
Hence, the smith made a new catch with a wider base from scratch which is solid in place like the proverbial rock.
Long Johns Wolf

[JimCunn]

Thanks for the info.
Much appreciated.