4227 in .38 special

[Froogal]

For cowboy shooting, I've been loading the wife's .38 specials with Trail Boss, but I see that 4227 is also listed for .38 special and would probably provide for a bit more OOMPH than the Trail Boss.

Any opinions? Would the recoil increase significantly?

I have plenty of Trail Boss, but the 4227 seems to be a bit more available at this time.

[pony express]

I don't have any loading manuals in the house with me to look at loads, but my thoughts are, any load for .38 with 4227 will probably be a +P load, I think 4227 is in the same range as 2400.

[Abilene]

A whole lot more oomph.  What Pony Express said.  This is Hodgdon's description:

IMR 4227 is a medium burn speed, magnum pistol propellant. If a pistol says Magnum, IMR 4227 is the choice for true magnum velocities and performance.  In rifles, this powder delivers excellent velocity and accuracy in such cartridges as the 22 Hornet and 221 Fireball.

For 38 spcl, the only data they show for a lead bullet is a 158gr LSWC, 8.0 to 9.0 gr for 887 to 983 fps.   Loads with lighter bullets would probably be faster.

[Froogal]

A whole lot more oomph.  What Pony Express said.  This is Hodgdon's description:

IMR 4227 is a medium burn speed, magnum pistol propellant. If a pistol says Magnum, IMR 4227 is the choice for true magnum velocities and performance.  In rifles, this powder delivers excellent velocity and accuracy in such cartridges as the 22 Hornet and 221 Fireball.

For 38 spcl, the only data they show for a lead bullet is a 158gr LSWC, 8.0 to 9.0 gr for 887 to 983 fps.   Loads with lighter bullets would probably be faster.

The info included with the LEE reloading die set lists the 4227 for .38 special and I think it does mention 8 to 9 grains. It is NOT a +P load. I may or may not load up a few and test them but probably will not give up on the Trail Boss until I run out.

[Virgil Lantey]

I've been told that IMR4227 performs best when loaded toward the upper end of the load data, which would give you more oomph than you want.  I'd be interested to know your results with a lighter charge. I plan to use it in 45 Colt for a "rifle only" load.

[Abilene]

I would NOT buy the 4227 if you don't already have it.  There are a LOT of good pistol powders coming back in stock at the suppliers. 

[Froogal]

I would NOT buy the 4227 if you don't already have it.  There are a LOT of good pistol powders coming back in stock at the suppliers.

I have 2 pounds of the 4227. My original intent was to use it as a "duplex" load for black powder, but that has not happened yet, and may or may not actually happen. I also have Unique, TiteGroup, Longshot, and HP38 so if I run out of Trailboss It's no big deal.

[44 centerfire]

Experimented a lot 50 years ago with this powder. 4227.....it shines in carbine length barrel for a hot load using magnum primers for a complete burn....and rarely  in a 7 1/2 inch six-gun with mag primers.

To me 2400 is more practical which is little faster burn and not needing mag primers. I settled on 2400 for 7 1/2 barrel .44 mag and .357. Anything shorter than 71/2 barrel would warrant Unique or Bullseye.

Have used 800X and used 20-28 in my 44-40s and .38 non magnum stuff when I couldn't find Unique a few years ago.

So a lot of newer powders can be used that have a better complete burn than 4227. bla-bla-bla lol. That's my story and I'm sticking too it

[Crow Choker]

***What Abilene said in his two posts*****  I've been reloading handgun and rifle loads since 1976 and have been using 4227 since that time, BUT only in .357 and 44 Mag loadings. Have used it some in high end 44 Special loads also. Once loaded up some 38 Special with 125 grain Speer HP's, but decided before even firing them in my J-Frame Smith Model 60 they were to much in the +P category which isn't recommended for many or any +P----loosen the thing up to much. Fired them in my 357's. I have used 4227 for cast bullet reduced loadings in my collection of military model bolt action rifles with success, but it is a recommended powder for doing so.

IMO and all the readings I've done, 4227 wouldn't be a good powder for CAS powered 38 Spec or any other caliber. You'd be over the legal power ratings for competition ifin you do load your 38's with 4227 to reach its accuracy potential and with reduced loadings not realize its potential. Plenty of faster pistol/shotgun powders out there if ya can get them that would reduce the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" you'd get using 4227 for Cowboy Action loadings or just stick with Trail Boss.

[Froogal]

Got a bit of an awakening awhile ago, and maybe even learned something.

I took my snub nosed .38 special out for a bit of exercise. It is my go to for concealed carry, so it gets carried a lot, but fired very little. ANYHOW, that little thing kicked like a mule shooting jacketed hollow points and accuracy was way out in left field somewhere. I don't remember for sure what powder I used in those, but probably TiteGroup.

I finished up with round nose cast bullets over trailboss. Much less recoil and accuracy improved a BUNCH.

[DeaconKC]

Froogal, one of the best shooting rounds I have seen shot in 38 snubs over the years is the Winchester 110 grain JHP. Yup, the ones in the white box. They just seem to shoot well in any snubbie. Recoil is not bad and accuracy is usually very good.

[Froogal]

Okay. I tried it. Loaded 50 rounds of .38 special with 9 grains of 4227 under a 158 grain LRNFP. Loaded 10 rounds into my Henry and hit every target from 25 yards out to 80 yards. A couple of misses but that was me.

Fired another 20 rounds with my Ruger Vaquero, 5 1/2" barrel at 10 yards and also at 20 yards. A couple of misses again, but that was me.

Recoil not an issue with either the rifle or the Vaquero. In fact it was a rather pleasant experience. I will probably load up a few more. Need to do a side by side comparison with the Trail Boss loads.