Black Powder loads for original 1876 45-60?

BillKilgore · October 17, 2021, 05:01:13 PM

Is anybody loading black powder for their 45-60? Which powder / bullet combination are you using and what are your muzzle velocities?

The last of the components are inbound for loading some rounds for my vintage 45-60. I have Goex ffg powder, some 300 gr copper plated bullets and some 45-70 brass that I will cut to size. I understand the "60" refers to 60 grains of BP, but I would like to know which powder/bullet combinations people are using and what velocities you see with a chronograph.

Are there any other special considerations? Later, when I start loading 300 gr cast boolits, I plan to make a lube out of tallow and bees wax.

As always, thanks in advance.

wildman1 · October 17, 2021, 05:35:08 PM

You may have a lot better luck using some real BP bullets rather than those copper jacketed bullets and don't forget the lube. You also do not have to start with full loads in BP you can work up to that.
wM1

Cap'n Redneck · October 18, 2021, 04:30:22 AM

I'm using the LEE 330 grain RNFP cast from wheelweights, a milk carton card, 55 grains of Swiss # 4 (1,5 Fg) blackpowder. Federal Large Rifle Magnum primers.

Swiss # 3 (2 Fg) will also work. Swiss burns cleaner and has a little more "Oomph" compared to other brands.

Special considerations: Copper-plated bullets have no lube, so I'd expect precision to decline rapidly with blackpowder, unless You swab the bore between shots. You might benefit from adding a "grease-cookie" between bullet and powder. You'll also need a card wad over and under the grease-cookie.

If You decide to experiment with reduced blackpowder-loads it is imperative to fill the void between bullet and powder with card wads / cork wads or something similar, or a ringed chamber may be the result.

BillKilgore · October 18, 2021, 05:46:21 PM

Thank you, Cap'n and Wildman.

I would normally use cast lead bullets, but I had to buy loaded 45-70 ammo in order to get brass. I will disassemble the rounds, dump the smokeless powder, then trim to the appropriate case length. I have no other use for 300 gr 45 caliber bullets, so I will recycle them into black powder 45-60 rounds.

BillKilgore · October 22, 2021, 08:13:09 PM

Wish me luck, guys.

The last of my components arrived today. I made ten 45-60 BP rounds and plan to test them tomorrow.

If it works, I will post pictures. If it doesn't, send flowers for the funeral. It will be a closed casket affair.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · October 22, 2021, 09:37:32 PM

I have read that .45-60 cases have a thinner rim than .45-70. This could have qa bad effect on headspace. CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS?

BillKilgore · October 23, 2021, 06:18:24 AM

I have also read about thicker rims on 45-70 cases. In those situations, the rims would not allow the cases to fully chamber.

These will cycle through my rifle. The overall case length on the first two are 0.071 shorter than the average length of the vintage ammo, but still within the range of the 20 vintage rounds. The other 8 reloaded rounds are 0.03 shorter than average.

Cap'n Redneck · October 23, 2021, 06:35:53 AM

According to the "Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion", page 597:
The .45-60 Win. has a rim thickness of .062".
The .45-70 Gov't is listed at .07" rim thickness, as is the .45-75 Win.
The .50-95 Win. is also listed with a .06" rim thickness.
The .40-60 Win. is not listed in the manual at all.

My guess is that headspace problems may only be evident with original 1876's in pristine condition.
An original with about 140 years of wear will probably chamber cases with .07" thick rims just fine.

I made cases for my Uberti 1876 from cut-down Starline .45-70 brass, with no headspace issues.

Niederlander · October 23, 2021, 07:07:47 AM

A friend of mine has an original '76 in "well used" condition. Cut down .45-70 cases generally have too thick a rim to work in his rifle. They work wonderfully in my Uberti '76. For what it's worth.

Tully Mars · October 23, 2021, 10:42:52 AM

I use cut down 45-70 brass and Big Lube Bullets from Springfield Slim in my original 76'. 50 grains of FF and a 1/8" vegetable wad, my accuracy improved greatly when I went to the 50 grains and added the wad, my rifling is very shallow.
Tully

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

BillKilgore · October 23, 2021, 01:44:06 PM

Well, both the rifle and I survived with no ill effects. I am thrilled to bring this old girl back to life. The rifle shot well and had very mild recoil. The grouping was not too bad considering my eyesight and that I was using iron sights at 100 yards. The fourth shot was through the chrono, so it is a little displaced from the first three. I got an average of 1247 fps from 60.0 gr Goex ffg.

My wife took a couple short videos. I think it was for insurance purposes. Below are a few freeze frames from the videos.