Reaching out to cas reloading 12 gauge

[Reloadin Dan]

Hello everyone! I want to do something I think that that has been done by cowboy action shooters in the past I'm attempting to reload 12 gauge shotgun shells and use pyrodex with steel shot.

To top it off I'm going to try to fire these slugs from a pump shotgun that is meant for modern shells.

I'll treat my modern pump shotgun much like a muzzleloader same rules clean immediately swap between shots etc. I am used to inline muzzleloader shooting.

I have questions like for you guys that do reload the 12 gauge using black powder or black powder substitute do you guys use shot cups or do you use some type of fiber wad and spacers? Also I've heard of the square load but is that the only load available and does that apply to pyrodex?

I've seen black powder shotguns loaded and it's a different animal entirely everything is based on compression and they do use felt wads and the like. Of course the modern shotgun wad has a plastic cushion I just don't have enough information to know if that works with black powder or a black powder substitute.

Any information will be helpful thank you for your time.

[Professor Marvel]

My Good Dan

Many folks reload shotsheels with BP, most who use plastic shotcups find the things leave melted stuff in the barrel, but it can clean up fairly well. Pyro will be more corrosive than black powder, and so need to be cleaned with lots of soap and water quickly. Solvents do not touch the corrosive salts.

Using steel shot, your milage may vary. If you are shooting at close steel targets it would be verboten due to extreme ricochet. Plus you will want shotcups designed for steel shot to keep your barrel safe.

Hopefully some folks with more specific advice will chime in shortly.

Yhs
Prof Marvel

[Cap'n Redneck]

Are You going to bust clay pigeons just for fun, or are You reloading for a serious hunting application?

I confess to avoiding Pyrodex at all costs, but have reloaded shotshells with real blackpowder for years.

Get the fastest burning granulation of Pyrodex available.  The blackpowder equivalent to 3F/3P/PPP.

Dismantle the steelshot cartridges, discard the smokeless powder, and cut off the bottom "shock-absorber"-part of the shot-cup incl. the cup-part facing the powdercharge. 
Only keep the cup-part that encapsules the steel shot. 
You will need the space gained to get enough Pyrodex in the case. 
Especially since You're going to use steel-shot, which is lighter than lead and requires more velocity in order to "kill" as efficiently. 
Buy some cardboard 12ga. "Over-powder cards".  Can be had from Dixie Gun Works, Track of the Wolf, etc.
These will keep the hot-burning Pyrodex from melting the plastic shot-cup in Your barrel.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/171/1

As to the amount of Pyrodex....I have no idea....I have only heard that Pyrodex is lighter than real blackpowder.  You should load the same VOLUME of Pyrodex as You would real blackpowder, NOT the same weight.
The old rule-of-thumb is 1/3 of the cartridge volume should be taken up by blackpowder, 1/3 by the cushion wad(s), and the final 1/3 by the shot-load.
You might have to increase the powdercharge up from 1/3 and reduce the cushion-wad part accordingly.

I can state that 83 grains of 3F granulation blackpowder behind 28 grams (1 oz.) of lead-shot is the standard load in British "Gamebore" 12-67 cartridges.
I have used up to 95 grains of blackpowder behind 36 grams of lead-shot in all-brass shells.  It is a "frisky" load.

You will have to do a bit of experimenting, unless someone else chimes in with specific load data for Pyrodex in 12 ga. shotgun shells.

The basic procedure is:  "a suitable amount" of powder; one or more "over-powder cards" to take up the space between powder and shot-load;  the plastic shot-cup with steel-shot; finally a star-crimp or roll-crimp.  (in the case of a roll-crimp You will need a thin cardboard "over-shot card".  These can be bought from the same suppliers as the "over-powder cards", or stamped out from milk-cartons.)

Important notes:  You do not want any air-pockets inside the cartridge case, so You'll need the whole loading column to be lightly compressed. 
This means that You can NOT use .50 cal. Pyrodex Pellets in a 12ga. cartridge. 
I guess You can use 12 ga. Pyrodex Pellets made for muzzleloader shotguns if they can be had, but Pyrodex in loose granules gives You more flexibility when loading a shotgun shell.

[Reloadin Dan]

That was extremely informative and probably the best concentrated piece of information I got so far.

The goal was to create something that burned pyrodex which I can obtain for very cheap also is more readily available than smokeless powder at the moment and use steel shot for game animals. I am allowed to hunt with lead however I am trying to use non-lead options.  I realize they make steel shot in a modern 12 gauge obviously.

I do have some muzzle loading black powder experience and was curious if you could load a 12 gauge with black powder.  Then it hit me the Cass community probably uses those!

So basically I could use a plastic wad and deal with the mess or I could build it up as though I'm loading a black powder shotgun stacking powder and spacer wads. The only difference would be it be in an enclosed cartridge or shell rather.

I may try the plastic wad cups and add a lube felt wad above the over powder card and under the shot cup.

I also have never used pyrodex. I have experience with triple seven and black powder. My understanding is the pyrodex weighs out by volume just like BP in equal loads. Unlike triple 7 where you have to reduce the charge a little bit. Maybe I should run some pyrodex through my modern in line CVA wolf to get a handle of it.

[Coffinmaker]

  Dan 

I'm gonna wade in here just a little bit.  Hopefully save you heartache.

The absolutely WORST choice you could make for your propellant is PYRODEX.  Pyrodex is a chemical rusting agent that just happens to burn.  You have no idea what a cleaning nightmare it is.  On a humid day, I have observed guns shot with the stuff "flash rust" within minutes of shooting.

The day after you clean after Pyrodex, you will have to clean again.  You will find rust. . . . again.  You may well have to clean the third day as well.

The "HORROR" stories you hear and read about from Plastic Wads are just that.  Stories.  I compete (shoot) with All Brass 12Ga hulls, using APP with Plastic Wads.  I/We do get a little "snake skin" left in the bores.  Three Squirts of PAM, THEN a Bore Brush wrapped in heavy paper towel, wet with PAM and the snake skin comes out with one application.  Then a dry patch and then an oily patch.  It takes longer to type this than it does to do.  I seat the Wad directly on the powder and the load requires NO COMPRESSION.

If I were suggesting a Substitute (I am, actually) I should strongly recommend APP.  APP is "American Pioneer Powder."  Requires no lubes and is super easy to clean after.  There is also another Sub, also made by APP marketed by a one of the chain sports houses.  The name of the Powder and House escape me (memory of a Gnat).

The only thing PYRODEX is good for is Fertilizer and that's shaky.

Play Safe Out There

[Reloadin Dan]

For the record I have never heard a good thing about pyrodex lol. I might just go with the goex or t7 I have.

There must be a reason it's cheap! I have 3 pounds I bought at 19 a pound. Maybe I'll give it one try in the inline. I clean all my stuff right after I shoot. That goes for bp and modern smokeless. Everything except pellet guns.

Anyway thanks again! Good to know the plastic isn't as bad as they say.

[Major 2]

  Dan 

I'm gonna wade in here just a little bit.  Hopefully save you heartache.

The absolutely WORST choice you could make for your propellant is PYRODEX.  Pyrodex is a chemical rusting agent that just happens to burn.  You have no idea what a cleaning nightmare it is.  On a humid day, I have observed guns shot with the stuff "flash rust" within minutes of shooting.

The day after you clean after Pyrodex, you will have to clean again.  You will find rust. . . . again.  You may well have to clean the third day as well.

The "HORROR" stories you hear and read about from Plastic Wads are just that.  Stories.  I compete (shoot) with All Brass 12Ga hulls, using APP with Plastic Wads.  I/We do get a little "snake skin" left in the bores.  Three Squirts of PAM, THEN a Bore Brush wrapped in heavy paper towel, wet with PAM and the snake skin comes out with one application.  Then a dry patch and then an oily patch.  It takes longer to type this than it does to do.  I seat the Wad directly on the powder and the load requires NO COMPRESSION.

If I were suggesting a Substitute (I am, actually) I should strongly recommend APP.  APP is "American Pioneer Powder."  Requires no lubes and is super easy to clean after.  There is also another Sub, also made by APP marketed by a one of the chain sports houses.  The name of the Powder and House escape me (memory of a Gnat).

The only thing PYRODEX is good for is Fertilizer and that's shaky.

Play Safe Out There

Coffinmaker is referring to BLACK MZ  now Discontinued was produced under the Aliant Powder banner.
and Shockey's Gold another APP banner