V V powders in 76's ,who's dun it ??

[Slamfire]

 Thinking about trying the V V powders in my 76 Chappie's. anyone tried any of these powders,, and advice on which one's to use for 40-60 & 45-60 . I have looked them up ,, but find they are kind of vague , for me ( UMMV ).


  coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Cap'n Redneck]

By "V V", are you referring to the Finnish-manufactured "Vihtavuori" smokeless powder...?

[Slamfire]

 Yes Sir , I are , have you tried any of this powder ?

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Cap'n Redneck]

Yep; Vihtavuori and blackpowder is pretty much what we have to play around with, this side of the pond.

I downloaded this .45-60 data from the homepage of Chaparral, several years ago:

300 gr. Sierra .458" FN Hollow Point:  46 grains VV N135.

330 gr. Chaparral Arms bullet .459":  45 grains VV N135.

400 gr. (no make given) .458":  41 grains VV N135.

330 gr. Chaparral Arms bullet .459":  47 grains VV N140.

All the above loads are listed as loaded in Chaparral cases, and primed with CCI primers.
(I have assumed that the 330 gr. "Chaparral Arms bullet" is an all lead bullet...)
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I own an Uberti 1876 in .45-60 caliber, and I have loaded cut-down Winchester .45-70 brass with Federal primers.  Bullet was the LEE 330 grain FN cast from wheelweights.  I used 43 grains of VV N135.

I like the N135; it fills the cartridge case almost completely and has given me no unpleasant surprises. 
I use it for .38-55, .45-60 and .45-70.

The N133 could also be used, it is a little hotter than the N135, so loads should be reduced accordingly.
The N140 has always been a typical powder for the .308 Nato etc. in my eyes.... I've never tried it in any of the old blackpowder cases.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/n100-powders/

[Slamfire]

Cap'n , thank you for the info. , I use H4198 in both 40-60 & 45-60 , but always looking to improve , so it looks like from N120 thru N133 ,should be in H-4198 range, but a bit more powder per round. From all my reading the thing is " it burns very clean ", that's a plus to me. I use 45-70 Starline cut down , the rim thickness is just right for the head space on " my " Chappies. I cast a 457122HP for the 45-60 @ 20 :1 mix. drop @ .342 gr. + - , is .43grs. your max load ?

  coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Cap'n Redneck]

Upon checking my pencil notes it appears that I'm also using cut-down Starline .45-70 brass.
For these chronographed loads I've used Winchester Large Rifle Primers. 
Same LEE 330 gr. wheelweight bullet.

43 grains N135 = 1417 f/sec. average velocity.  (This load had only a 2 f/sec extreme spread.)
44 grains N135 = 1483 f/sec. average velocity.
45 grains N135 = 1511 f/sec. average velocity.

I didn't make any notes as to accuracy for any of these loadings....I was probably more concerned with getting reliable velocity readings and not blowing the chrono to smithereens...!

[Slamfire]

 Now that is very useful info. , just got a chronograph ,, be a few days until I can get to use it.
I'm thinking I should start at .38 grs. work up , that first load @ 2f/sec. spread say a lot, 1417 f/sec. sounds about right for paper punch'n , out to 100 yds. ( minimum  ) , really thank you for the help. I will post my findings.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[King Medallion]

Interesting. I haven't been able to find where you got these loads from tho. I sent them a request for 45/75 and 50/95 loads.

[Cap'n Redneck]

@ KingMedallion:  The loading data for .45-60 in my first post was downloaded and printed from Chaparral Arms' homepage when I bought the Uberti 1876 way back in 2005ish...
I do not recall if C.A. had loadingdata for the other 1876 calibers on their homepage at the time, sorry.
I have not been able to find a working homepage for either Chaparral Arms or the parent company Palmetto Arms today.

If you sent a request for loading data for .45-75 and .50-95 to Vihtavuori, then I'd be positively surprised if they have actually worked up  smokeless loads for these obsolete calibers....but stranger things HAVE been known to happen....

I don't know if I'm 100% comfortable with the concept of extrapolating load data from one caliber to another.....especially with high-capacity cases like the .45-75 and the .50-95....but if you are prepared to risk it I could post smokeless (Vihtavuori) reloading data for the .45-70 Gov't that are safe in original Springfield Trap-Doors?   

[King Medallion]

Lets see what Vihtavuori has to say 1st. I'm leaning towards BP mostly, and IMR 4198 works best in the 45/75 anyway. I'm just curious is all.

[greyhawk]

Extrapolating load data?
Early days I actually considered smokeless loadings for my 45/75 Uberti (yep for more than two minutes too)
In the process of that I unearthed a surprise

Thought that 45/70 (trapdoor) data should have been easily safe given same boolit weight and the 45/75 is a bigger capacity case right?

ooooops ! when I checked that out I could not get as much BP into a 45/75 case as I could fit in a 45/70 ? I checked a few different times -

1) I had cut my 348 brass short to fit the crimp groove of a LEE boolit I liked
But even full length stuff is only equal capacity to a 45/70
2) 348 brass as a parent - that stuff is tough - thicker everywhere than the old fangled original brass would have been
3) using 330grain boolit it took me at least four loads to blow the cases out to shape maybe that process was incomplete

I had assumed at least 5 grains more room but instead was that much less (in a full length 45/75 the boolit is seated much deeper than a 45/70 so you loose some powder room to lead)

add to that a bottleneck case compared to straight adds some pressure -----none of which matters as I was so pleased with my BP loads I forgot all about smokeless ... didnt go there - not gonna