Mini Shells and Rolled Crimps

[Professor Marvel]

Has anyone else ever tried theAguila Mini ( 1 3/4 in) shells?

https://www.aguilaammo.com/ammunition/category/shotshell/

12 GAUGE MINISHELL® BUCKSHOT
1 3/4 in. 
5/8 Ounce
4Buck (7pellets) and 1Buck (4pellets) Shot
1,200 ft/sec.

I KNOW! LET"S CALL THEM 12 GUAGE EXTRA SHORT!


Whilst out on the quest for
      "WTH does the LGS actually have in stock"
I found a box of affordable 9mm hollowpoints (huzzah!)
and boxes of Aguila Mini Shotgun Shells. Locally they caried a buckshot combo, but Aguila also makes the cute little
things in birdshot and slugs.










The things hearken back to days of yore and trying to find 2" shells for older side-by-sides.

But they have a great place for the solution to  "reduced load/ extra capacity" in a pump, if you can get them to cycle

Low And Behold, I just happen to have a Mossburg 500 ( which everybody says likes the things)
and picked up a little rubber wedge thing that makes them cycle REALLY reliably!

I can get 11 into the Mossberger !  and the shell holder bolted to the stock will hold 10!
and the combination of 1Buck and 4Buck makes for a great close range option that won't penetrate 15 walls
and carry through the forest into the neighbors....

So with the 300 Lumen fucussing LED flashlite attached now I have a great system for Mrs Marvel who is  recoil sensitive.


As I sit around trying to not think too much, I came across all sorts of websites on
making your own short shells. esp using roll crimps. then improvised wax loads, and way too much wierd crap.

Soooo now I have yet another rabbit hole to fall down.... Short Shells and Roll Crimps.

thoughts, comments, experiences?

yhs
prof marvel

[Abilene]

I've heard that they are hard to manipulate for loading a SxS on the clock.  But for increased capacity in a pump it sounds like you have found just the ticket!

[Coffinmaker]

Oh WOW!! Perfesser 

I completely forgot about "Mini Shells"   Seems some Lustrum ago, I was quite the fan of the cute little things.  Fun to load for Wild Bunch.  Stuff 'em up the '97 and go like blazes.  Yep. Quite fun.  Not necessarily reasonable (cheap) and sometimes had to order them in, but fun.  Then SASS screwed Wild Bunch into the gravel and I quit that nonsense.

Regards to Abilene too!!  Yep.  Also tried them in my doubles when I gave up the '97 (still have one) and the rumor the little darlings are hard to manipulate for loading on the clock, is NOT a rumor.  The little things were the devel to get out of the belt cleanly and then into the breach.  I was quite good entertainment tossing those little shells everywhere but into the gun.  Alas.  NOT available in Gun Powder.  Smokeless only.  I could also not see any efficient way to reload them so never even tried. 

The little darlings were however, great fun.  For a while.  I do keep a '97 for border protection.  Never thought to check the one I still have for function with Aguila.   Hummmmmmmmmm

Hide and Watch

[Abilene]

I actually did load some of the minis with Black Powder a long time ago.  Back when those minis were colored black.  IIRC, I put in some BP, then an overshot card, then shot, and then crimped.  Something like that.  They were not satisfying. 

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Dear Coffin & Abilene -

Coffin - one must needs  ensure (love the archaic phrase-ology) that the tiny aguilas cylce correctly in a pump!
If somehow they work , there is some strange magic in the Mossy's lifter design, when using this thing

then one is golden.

Otherwise, they can literally flip around backwords during the loading cycle and trying to cram them base first into
the chamber really gums up the works...

So let us see what sort of results the interweb peoples have to offer. After all, it's on the Interweb, so it Must Be True!

AAaaaaaannnnnnd Look!
Federal is getting ionto the short shell game
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/federal-shorty-12gauge-ammo-evaluation/374496

and someone called Challenger.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/shotgun-mini-shells-a-shotgunner-on-their-advantages-disadvantages-and-best-uses/

Hmm also seems to spread out rapidly, want to use them at ~ 15-20 yards or less.
If growing your own (as I plan) one can always add better shotcups.

It seems that some of the older shotguns cycle the short shells nicely, at least according  to Aguila and some interweb comments.

Good Grief, Coffin you actually wrote this one in 2016:
"Some years back, I ran the Aguila Minis in my '97. Ran like wet grain thru a goose. "

Consensus says
- They work great in Winchester 1300 shotguns,
- work well in Win 1897
- work well in Mossberger 500 series once the rubber block thingy is applied
- WILL JAM real good in 870's
- Seem to jam in an Ithaca

so, I will have to make some dummies and try cycling them in Grampa's old Marlin 1898 "so-called widowmaker"
built in 1923 that I am restoring and for which I making a 2 barrel cased set ("Somebody" tried to carve
a flying duck on one side of the buttstock and a pirate skull on the other ... but they look more like a
flying blob and a blobby "X" )


from aguila's page: (Aguila's minishell page (http://www.aguilaammo.com/minishells.htm) )

snip------------------------------------------------------
Modification of Shotguns to Fire
"Aguila" Minishells

First of all, any SAAMI/CIP approved 12ga shotgun may fire minishells, be it side-by-side, over-and-under or pump action; however, the latter type will not cycle them flawlessly. The out-of-the-box shotgun that we have tested cycling minishells very well, is the Winchester M1300 18" Defender. Winchesters 1897 seems to like the shorter rounds, however not as much as the Winchester 1300. We still have to test the Winchester 1887.

MOSSBERGS 500/590s will cycle minishells pretty well once the shooter acquires a "feeling" as to how to pump the action; however, this will not prevent the occasional jam. To further solve the problem, we have lengthened and widened the little short metal bar (shell elevator), which catches the round to be subsequently fed to the ramp and chamber. This modification will not prevent you from firing regular size shot shells. The other modification that would decisively help in the proper cycling, would be to install the ejector in a more forward position to catch the spent shorter shell and eject it, before it may flip and cause jams. However, we DO NOT recommend you to do this, because you will most likely no longer be able to fire regular size shells.

Any competent gunsmith should be able to perform the modification to the elevator described above.

REMINGTONS 870s seem to require a more involved modification, which we have never attempted. We have received calls from clients stating that they have tried our minishells in their 870s with excellent results, and that they did not understand why we have always mentioned the potential cycling problems. To this, we would like to state once more that minishells will not cycle flawlessly in regular pump action shotguns, no matter how well some customers are able to cycle them. Again, the Winchester 1300 Defender would seem to be the one cycling minishells best.

We do not know of any semi-automatic shotguns functioning with minishells.

As a final note, we would like to mention that we will very soon be selling our "POSEIDON" Micro-shotgun, which will only fire minishells.
endsnip------------------------------------------------------


Here is the rubber blocky thing for Mossbergers

OPSol Mini-Clip 2.0



https://www.opsolmini-clip.com/product/opsol-mini-clip-2-0-flex/

Unfortunately, the OPSol folks have not been able to make the things work with anything but Mossy's

here is their FAQ page
https://www.opsolmini-clip.com/faqs/

of course, as always, YMMV

prf mumbles