Heres an auction for a fake Dragoon....

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings my dear netizens

As stated, here is an auction for what is certainly a fake Colt Dragoon.
This is from an estate auction for a dead so-called billionair in florida.



They have several colt navies, but this caught my eye, they have it listed as

"Lot 114: COLT POCKET MODEL 1849 .44 PISTOL
Serial Number 29514. GOOD CONDITION POCKET MODEL WITH NON ORIGINAL BARREL. NO RESERVE. Vandenbrook Galleries is holding a mostly (all but 6 guns) NO RESERVE auction featuring collectible and important guns and firearms that you do not want to miss! We are liquidating a wealthy collectors' gun collection that was accumulated over many years"

That is the entirity of their description!

I emailed them twice, telling them
1) this is not an 1849 pocket model
2) 1849 pocket models never were offered in .44
3) this is actually a Dragoon
4) this is not original but a copy, possibly a deliberate fake
5) Colt Dragoons were never in that serial number range. Interestingly, Pocket Model 1849's were in that range....

It looks to me like it has been refinished, and the non-original barrel renumbered and possibley farbed to match.

Unfortunately, no answer, and the auction goes blithly on.
Which suggests to me that they are trying desperately to ignore the fact that they have a fake, and are trying to cover their ass with smoke, mirrors, and an attempt at "willful ignorance" ....


https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/colt-pocket-model-1849-44-pistol-a404e2c99e

[Niederlander]

That would take a pretty BIG pocket to tote around...........

[River City John]

That 3rd Gen. 1851 has telltale red dye wood grips.
'Course they never say it's an original.

Buyers better know their firearms . . .

RCJ

[Abilene]

Well now, they DID say that it had a non-original barrel.  And that is true.  It also has a non-original cylinder, frame, and grip. 

I'm thinking they might just have the wrong picture(s) (and description re: .44 ).  Are there any Dragoons listed in that sale?  Or are there pictures of this gun of the Pocket s/n ?

[Professor Marvel]

I found the same fotos on their official auction site. But nothing with more detail.
I find it intriguing that the only marks on the whole dam' thing is the serial number and the "address saml colt" on the top of the barrel.
No markings at all on the sides, etc.

It really looks like a professional fake defarb and reblue/recase , the corners are polished round and the casehardening is way to good.

I am rather saddened by the chicanery. I really do hate con artists and gypsies. Might even be from one of the "artists" of earlier decades.
One guy was so good his fake Walker decieved 'most everyone... for a while. 'Twas quite a famous case...

If it were anything at all "real" it would have been easy to get info from Colt, or a professional appraisal.
Instead they count on snake oil...

oh well,
a fool and his money...
you can lead a horse...
the devil takes care of his own...

I hope some colt expert takes a look at it and chimes in

prof sad

[Galen]

Personally I no longer use or even view GB. There are by far to many dishonest dealers and many play the old shill game for my liking. Yet GB does nothing to rid the sight of these neerdowell types.

[Major 2]

Colt 2nd  BP  F series or perhaps 3rd Gen. Signature series  3rd Model Dragoon ( Signature on the BS removed )

The est. value $1,000 - $3,000 ,  Ranges from optimistic to foolish money 

but the bids currently @  $150 3 bids,  is a bit light .... no reserve ?  I think it might go $650 - 700

Bears watching    ...ends tomorrow  August 8, 2020, 1:00 PM EST


keep in mind - 5%  buyers premium of the Auction Houses - which could be as high as  15% -20%

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I remember a guy on Antiques Road show who brought in an "original Walker Colt".  He paid something like $200,000 for it at an auction house.  The expert told him it was a rather poor fake (still had an Italian proof that they missed when faking it, IIRC).  He told him it was worth $400!  The guy was purple in the face!

[Professor Marvel]

Colt 2nd  BP  F series or perhaps 3rd Gen. Signature series  3rd Model Dragoon ( Signature on the BS removed )

The est. value $1,000 - $3,000 ,  Ranges from optimistic to foolish money 

but the bids currently @  $150 3 bids,  is a bit light .... no reserve ?  I think it might go $650 - 700

Bears watching    ...ends tomorrow  August 8, 2020, 1:00 PM EST


keep in mind - 5%  buyers premium of the Auction House - which could be as high as  15%

Greetings My Dear Major
Am I correct that it has been overbuffed and refinished?

I was wondering if it was one of the infamous ASM fakes that were floating around .
There was even a specialist that built fakes from Italian replicas and challenged experts to tell them from "real".... 

I remember a guy on Antiques Road show who brought in an "original Walker Colt".  He paid something like $200,000 for it at an auction house.  The expert told him it was a rather poor fake (still had an Italian proof that they missed when faking it, IIRC).  He told him it was worth $400!  The guy was purple in the face!

My Good TL -
I saw ( I think on that show about the colorado gunsmiths?) an old fellow  brought in a faked Walker and was so pissed  when several epxerts pointed out all the fakeness...
He went livid and declared if "they" weren't gonna believe him and buy it, he knew "Several Smart Guys" that would....
I think he got escorted out...

yhs
prof amrvel

[Professor Marvel]

here is a link to the Vandenbrook page
https://vandenbrookgalleries.hibid.com/lot/69109350/colt-pocket-model-1849--44?q=1849

more intriguing, if one looks up the serial number (29514) on https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup
we find almost everything except a Dragoon - and only one 2nd gen and it's 1978 MODEL 1851 NAVY (2ND GENERATION COLT RE-ISSUE)

Is that site considered "complete"?

And I would not think a 2nd gen would fetch their Estimate  1,000.00 - 3,000.00 USD                   
stranger and stranger.

prf mvl

[Major 2]

Bid History   
High Bid   550.00 USD  add  in their 20% buyer premium 

its already at  $ 660.00  and near my estimate...if "if" it goes much higher its  "in fools and their money soon parted " territory.

95% sure it is a 3rd Gen Gray box Signature Series ( they don't letter @ COLT )

The Signature back strap has been  replaced or the gun over buffed as The Prof has stated ....

It could be an ASM, as that is were the left over parts landed when , the Series was ended by Lou Imperato .

ASM was just down the street in from then the Uberti plant until the moved to the new digs


Edit : a case in point   http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/handguns/28833

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Major! You are spot on.

The 2 things  that bothered me was that the colt serial number page did not list it,
and that it was listed as an 1849 pocket.

it now seems that  the auction moron "specialist' looked up the number there and the first hit was the 1849 pocket pistol.
So that's how "they" titled it.

but i asked over here
https://www.coltforum.com/threads/possibly-fake-dragoon-from-an-internet-auction-house.379179/#post-3207996

And One of the guru's over on the Colt Forum has a reference book that puts it in the correct range for a Gen 2
and the fine fellow came up with the pages!

Interestingly, the colt serial number website did have the old family 1903 Colt .32acp ( apparently built in 1920... nice to know)

so I can say the mystery is resolved...

yhs
prof marvel

[Texas John Ringo]

I have a 2nd gen 3rd model Dragoon that the serial number is 24*** , that I didn't make the connection.

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Texas JR that helps.

Aha , the thing sold for $950 plus the auction house blood money and shipping. Thats probably about right for Gen 2?

I browsed over on the Colt forum, there are any number of discussions regarding questionable, fake, or misrepresented costly guns.
The Old Guys seem to believe that it is "part of the education" and "newbies get took, that's just the way it is".

I am amazed at the casual disregard of criminal fraud and other chicanery.

yhs
prof mumbles

[Major 2]

Yes  a like new , unfired 2nd Gen. in the Box    ...  but someone with money to burn  spent a premium @ $1130.00  for that one

[greyhawk]

Yes  a like new , unfired 2nd Gen. in the Box    ...  but someone with money to burn  spent a premium @ $1130.00  for that one

A few scrolls down that site and they also listed a japanese shaving razor as a damascene "pocket knife"

[Professor Marvel]

A few scrolls down that site and they also listed a japanese shaving razor as a damascene "pocket knife"

Oh My yes, those folks are real .... artists....

The Big Deals of the auction were supposed to be several guns "previously owned by famous gangsters"
such as a Bonnie and Clyde shotgun and others.
It appears the insanely priced gangster guns got "passed"

yhs
prof marvel