Recommend a clone SAA

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Abilene -

off topic -----------------------
Normally I agree with you in so many of your missives, but today I must take minor exception...   

whilst Monsieurs Miriam and Webster do have that entry, the technically and scientifically correct first choice is:

snip-------------------
clone
noun: clone; plural noun: clones
    an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical.
snip-------------------

And I periodically hold forth at length on the importance of "technically correct minutae" when I get bored and/or lonely...

sooooo...   

I vote with Coffin on "replica"     LOL

So, does that mean Pietta is a "Replicator"?   

ontopic................................

I too prefer the Piettas as they are most emiminently cheap affordable, durable and since the introduction of CNC quite consistently high quality and accurate. And easy to tweak or modify, or cut down.... and Alchemista keeps bringing out strange and delightful "neverwas" models, such as the 1860 thunderer grip snubby, the octogonal barreled Model P, etc etc....

altho it's a real barstich to pull the glued-in barrels off....

yhs
prof marvel

[chucksolo1]

Clone, Replica, just a matter of semantics. I will stay with Pietta guns and am looking at another Deluxe Californian i .45 Colt and with the faux ivory grips. What are your thoughts on a rig with a right side holster and a crossdraw on the left?

[Professor Marvel]

Clone, Replica, just a matter of semantics. I will stay with Pietta guns and am looking at another Deluxe Californian i .45 Colt and with the faux ivory grips. What are your thoughts on a rig with a right side holster and a crossdraw on the left?

That is my own preference!
I usually place a shorter barrel on strongside and the longer barrel cross draw at a slight angle at 10 o?clock.
Yhs prof Marvel

[Abilene]

That is my own preference!
I usually place a shorter barrel on strongside and the longer barrel cross draw at a slight angle at 10 o?clock.
Yhs prof Marvel

Me, too (although I do occasionally shoot double strong side).

  Be sure the X-draw holster is 30-degrees or less angle from vertical as worn.  I always start with the X-draw so I can be drawing the strongside while holstering the X-draw, though that makes it harder to draw the X-draw if you have to move to the left before doing so.  If I was more versatile, I'd practice drawing strongside first in that scenario.

Oh, and on the clone thingie, I actually describe them as replicas or reproductions.  Just like to yank Coffinmaker's chain.    But don't call them replicants - those can kill you in more ways than replicas. 

[Coffinmaker]

Nah Nah Nah.  None of that strong side, X Draw Rubbish and such.  Need a gun in each hand, belching (loudly) Fire and Smoke from each Fist.  GUNFIGHTER!!!  Oh Yea!!!! 

Fer Gunfighter, the discerning pistolero will have TWO strong side holsters (no!! Not onna same side) from which to draw his (or her) 3 1/2 inch barrel SNUBBIE Cap Guns.  However, if the discerning Pistolero is more than "just" Ambledextalerious, it has been allowed one might resort to the "Hickock" stance, with pistols Butt Forward.  Some complistolated to safely draw from Butt Forward butt can in fact be done.  Not exactly my muggiest of Ale.

And, for a factoid .... if it twernt fer a few folks willing to yank the odd chain, towuldn't be near as much fun around here.  A really GOOD place to hang out it tiz two. 

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Abilene, EVERYBODY likes to yank Coffins chain in good fun :-)



and thanks for the details regarding angle, etc...

But when I saw your reply regarding double strong side my poor foggy brain was thinking what Coffin posted-
                              "  (no!! Not onna same side)"
then I finally realized the meaning ...
lol

After reading Coffin's Response,  I must modify my prior preference....

My Actual Preference, which will NEVER be allowed by SASS is double  shoulder holsters, and if the barrels are short enough, horizontal rigs.
Some folks have panic attacks over the barrels pointing hither and thither, ....  but ...  I am the wacko that REALLY LIKES the Bianchi 9R...

My Second preference, which will also be frowned upon, is double butt forward, using the appropriate "cavalry twist" draw.
This allows some pretty long barrels, and as Coffin pointed out, is safe as houses when properly done. Technically, trying to draw from
the "strong side behind the hip" could lead to the muzzle covering big parts of ones own anatomy....

So, to satisfy  SASS rules, I do use  right hip (strong side) at 3 oclock with a slight forward cant and crossdraw at between 9:30 and 10:30
with the allowed 30 degree slant Abilen mentioned.

Holster placement can be problematic, as I myself am built like the proverbial scarecrow, so I must fit holsters around, under, and in between various boney structures and still keep my trousers up.

yhs
prof marvel

[Abilene]

I do like butt forward with long holsters.  I have a short waist and long arms, so even with butt forward I try to warn the timer operator so's my elbow doesn't knock the timer out of his hand.   I like to do it this way:

http://davidscottharper.com/shoot/CavTwist.htm

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Good Abiliene -

thanks for the link to your photos, they demonstrate your method clearly.

As you show, if one pays attention doing  crossdraw,ther should not be any issues that others have raised
- ie: "doing the crossdraw dance"


BTW I think you are turning me into your fanclub president.
Firstly, I admire your Colts
Then I am enchanted with your gunbelt buckle!
      That is the root end of a shed antler, isn't it?

      next I fell in love (platonic) with your Thunderer-Mason Conversions!

And finally I envy your facial hair.

yhs
prof marvel, president and only member , Abilene Fan Club

[Coffinmaker]

I once did a "Cavalry" twist draw at a major match.  Drew collective screams it did.  To return to holster, with my index fingers gripping trigger guard securely, let go the grips, dropped the barrels to vertical, flipped both guns in hand too butt forward, then to holster.  Do it right, the guns don't even come close to the 170 but man o man will some folks ever fill their drawers.  Gawd but that was FUN.

Way back inna Waybac (Thank you Sherman and the other Professor) the Publisher and lead Scribe of "End of Trail" rag, did an article on shoulder holsters.  He had one rig in particular, that was a "horizontal" carry for TWO 3 1/2 inch Thunderers.  I salivated over that rig for weeks.  Wanted one so bad ........ Oh well.

I think Abilene has Plow Handles back on his R/Ms now.

[chucksolo1]

Thanks for the feedback boys, much appreciated!!

[Abilene]

Perfesser, I blush.  Perhaps we can start a mutual admiration society?  I would trade the facial hair for some more on the back of the head, but a cowboy hat covers that.  The belt buckle was a Christmas gift from my youngest sister, sadly 20 years gone.  It is moose antler, ivory, lapis.  I call it my 3rd eye.

Coffinmaker, you were partially right.  When I got the Tru-Ivory grips, the brass Navy frames went back on the engraved guns and became my main shooters for a number of years.  But a couple years ago when I started shooting the "61" Type II with a '51 R-M, I "borrowed" the Tru-Ivory Navies for those guns, and the engraved guns are sporting Thunderers again. 

Chucksolo1, you're welcome. 

[RUSS123]

I bought the Pietta Frontier Stainless 7.5" and overall it's excellent. The other day however, I discovered that the bolt was not fitting into the cylinder slots because it was wider than each slot yet the timing was fine, the cylinder would stop and felt solid. The long leading side of the bolt was just catching the top of the slot to stop it and was beginning to show evidence of it. To correct it, I carefully stoned the bolt to remove about .002" and that took care of it. The bolt head was never touched by the factory assembler but there was a nice taper given to the thin working leg where it meets the hammer cam for reset. Regardless of what you buy in a clone, they all need to be checked, better fitted of the action parts and tuned up and can be said for any gun. 

[Coffinmaker]

    I constantly hop up and down and holler about the care and attention required to make ANY of the guns we play with CAS ready.  NONE.  NADA.  NOTHING out of the box is ready or even desirable for the CAS game we play.  PERIOD!!

It is not unusual for a Pietta Bolt to be wider than the Cylinder slots.  One of the items that MUST be checked on ANY SA we are going to play with.  Hopefully, I didn't misunderstand RUSS123, however it is not a good idea to remove .002 from the entire bolt.  Material should only be removed from the portion of the bolt that enters the cylinder slot.  taking the material from the entire bolt may/will allow the bolt to wobble around in the frame window.

Recent build Pietta especially the Great Western II are the best value for dollar available today.

[RUSS123]

To clairify: I took material off the tip of the bolt, equal to how much the bolt head extends out from the frame, not the entire body of the bolt.

I read Pettyfogger's (spelling?) instructions.

[Coffinmaker]

Cool Beans RUSS   

That's exactly the way to do it.  An awful lot of guys and dolls out there don't realize many of the tips and trix in Pettifogger's Trieste are equally applicable to Suppository Shooters too.

The more prevalent it has become for the gunmakers to use CNC Machining, the less the hand work.  There is however, still a requirement for a degree of hand work.  Especially if the specific sample examples are going to be subjected to the rigors of CAS.  Good Job. 

[RUSS123]

Cool Beans RUSS   

That's exactly the way to do it.  An awful lot of guys and dolls out there don't realize many of the tips and trix in Pettifogger's Trieste are equally applicable to Suppository Shooters too.

The more prevalent it has become for the gunmakers to use CNC Machining, the less the hand work.  There is however, still a requirement for a degree of hand work.  Especially if the specific sample examples are going to be subjected to the rigors of CAS.  Good Job. 

I've learned: You have "production guns" and then you have "custom built guns".

To me, CNC Machining gives you a precision platform to start with where all the holes are were they are supposed to be. I got that statement from a custom 1911 builder over on the 1911 forum. I was also given the saying: "There is no such thing as a (drop-in) part". That saying has always stuck with me. That, and the reality that a talented gunsmith is also an artist. Precision fitting of parts is by HAND and to get it right it takes patients, talent, knowhow and much experience.

By design, I'm relatively new to revolvers but I have learned so much from the folks on this forum, Mike especially but not exclusively, who now has my 1872 Open Top to perform all his artistry and tuning innovations.

Anyway, I've come to imagine the rigors that CAS can place on a gun compared to the occasional casual range shooter, as you've pointed out so often. I've never been involved in the sport to really know.  I've had long, over the phone, conversations with Mike over what he does, that will give a revolver bullet proof protections from this abnormal punishment. When you understand the stress points, you can then understand the logic behind it and Mike's innovations, which only broadens one's understanding further and that includes the uniqueness of the open top design, especially in regard to poorly fitted Arbors.

The latest thing I learned talk with Mike was about his "Action Stop" mod, the physical stopping of the hammer when pulling it back. Somewhat equal in concept to the bolt stop but without a physical stop you're still putting stress on the hand, cylinder ratchet as well as the bolt after lock-up. Makes sense and so logical really, his mod stops you from pulling back on the hammer any further than it needs to travel for lock-up. It simply stops you from unintentionally stressing the action. The Action Stop, for its purpose, becomes an additional part of the overall timing and is, I believe, the one thing that poses most of the damage when shooting hard and fast as I can imagine you would in CAS.

One last thing: This reminds me of a given question about "Dry Firing" for practice over on the Ruger Forum. The question was: Is it OK, will I hurt anything? The answer was "NO" as long as you don't go slamming back on the hammer while dry firing....Cock it back easy.  Back then, I didn't really quite understand why.

Love talking about this stuff and so does Mike.