Reloaded .44-40 with jhp 240 gr with bad result

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

Thank you.  I tried everything I knew to do.  Including something similar (but it wasn't brass).  I was afraid if I kept poking around in that chamber with stuff I'd end up scratching up the gun and I sure didn't want to do that. 

Anyway, it still bothers me that this happened at all.  I'm still wondering what exactly I did wrong to cause this.  The powder weight in the load was on the low end.  It is possible to shoot a.429 240 gr  JHP bullet through a .429 bore even if it is at a slow velocity.   The only thing I can think is that the cartridge was worn out after times being used.   One thing is clear:  It wasn't the gun that failed, it was the cartridge that failed.   But people have shot much hotter loads than that in .44-40 out of 1892 actions. 

I'm not going to try this again because I don't know what went wrong.   For now, just stick to lead 200 gr hardcast bullets.  Should be adequate for what the gun is and anything I'll be shooting at paper or flesh

Hey, if you did all you were comfortable doing, then that was enough. We all have our limits as to how far we'll dig into things. I'll R&R a barrel on a toggle link action, but won't even attempt soldering. Anyhow...

Your load was very reasonable. Who knows why the case separated? Case separation is not at all an uncommon occurrence. Could've been, or be headspace that's a little on the long side, a case that was ready to separate regardless, or a combination of the two.

CHT

[greyhawk]

Thank you.  I tried everything I knew to do. 
Thats cool - now you got a new trick
Including something similar (but it wasn't brass).  I was afraid if I kept poking around in that chamber with stuff I'd end up scratching up the gun
Yep thats a sure bet with anything steel or remotely close - has to be a BRASS chisel

and I sure didn't want to do that. 

Anyway, it still bothers me that this happened at all.  I'm still wondering what exactly I did wrong to cause this.
You did say at the start that this was a used case ? Everytime we full length resize a case we are thinning the brass at the point where the case wall joins the soild head - how many times does it take? depends on a whole bunch of things - excessive headspace is a killer - a springy action with heavy loads - a sloppy chamber - crappy brass ........ by not full length resizing we keep the case a neater fit in the chamber and the effect is much less -- the theory of this is the first increase of pressure expands the case walls to grip the chamber - THEN - increased pressure pushes the base of the case rearwards to take up the slack in headspace so we get a little stretching between the walls and the base - do it enough times and eventually (how long is eventually?) the case wall thins to the point that we get a separation ---- in an old tired 32/20 action three reloads was enough (my first lever gun - 1960era) -- have ran a 22/250 on factory equivalent reloads and more than ten was still safe - but NEVER full length resized... Somewhere in the middle of all this, reloading crosses the line from science to art.   


  The powder weight in the load was on the low end.  It is possible to shoot a.429 240 gr  JHP bullet through a .429 bore even if it is at a slow velocity. 
 The only thing I can think is that the cartridge was worn out after times being used. 
Thats probably the most likely - but you have a heavy boolit over a charge of fast powder - that can seem like it should be safe, but can get ugly quick. Been there done that with red dot - moved a safe load up from 148 grain to 158 grain slug in a rossi 357/ 38spl - got a case separation with what should have been a safe medium level load ....... old cases - fast powder - heavy boolit for calibre   

I know that brass chisel thingy works 




 One thing is clear:  It wasn't the gun that failed, it was the cartridge that failed.   But people have shot much hotter loads than that in .44-40 out of 1892 actions. 

I'm not going to try this again because I don't know what went wrong.   For now, just stick to lead 200 gr hardcast bullets.  Should be adequate for what the gun is and anything I'll be shooting at paper or flesh

[Roscoe]

Thank you.  I tried everything I knew to do.  Including something similar (but it wasn't brass).  I was afraid if I kept poking around in that chamber with stuff I'd end up scratching up the gun and I sure didn't want to do that. 

Anyway, it still bothers me that this happened at all.  I'm still wondering what exactly I did wrong to cause this.  The powder weight in the load was on the low end.  It is possible to shoot a.429 240 gr  JHP bullet through a .429 bore even if it is at a slow velocity.   The only thing I can think is that the cartridge was worn out after times being used.   One thing is clear:  It wasn't the gun that failed, it was the cartridge that failed.   But people have shot much hotter loads than that in .44-40 out of 1892 actions. 

I'm not going to try this again because I don't know what went wrong.   For now, just stick to lead 200 gr hardcast bullets.  Should be adequate for what the gun is and anything I'll be shooting at paper or flesh

I think you will do better to skip the "hardcast" part.

[Doug.38PR]

I think you will do better to skip the "hardcast" part.

Why is that?   That's all I've been shooting in it since I got it and they shoot very well and accurate.  .427 gr Hunters Supply 200 gr hardcast lead bullets

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

I think you will do better to skip the "hardcast" part.

I cast my own 44-40 bullets (NOE mould, 220 gr. RNFP) and pretty much use straight wheelweights for alloy. No problems at with smokeless or BP loads.

   CHT

   

[Roscoe]

Why is that?   That's all I've been shooting in it since I got it and they shoot very well and accurate.  .427 gr Hunters Supply 200 gr hardcast lead bullets

What hardness number range do you think you have. "Hard cast" per se I think is about 15 and up. "Cowboy" bullets are generally 12 and down.

[Doug.38PR]

What hardness number range do you think you have. "Hard cast" per se I think is about 15 and up. "Cowboy" bullets are generally 12 and down.

Well, the overview says 15.  But also says, because of the lube, it will shoot fine in black powder firearms of 20 inches or less.  My carbine is 19 inches.   The bullet diameter is .427 and the bore is .429.  

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2046136144/hunters-supply-hard-cast-bullets-44-40-wcf-427-diameter-200-grain-lead-flat-nose

[Roscoe]

Well, the overview says 15.  But also says, because of the lube, it will shoot fine in black powder firearms of 20 inches or less.  My carbine is 19 inches.   The bullet diameter is .427 and the bore is .429.  

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2046136144/hunters-supply-hard-cast-bullets-44-40-wcf-427-diameter-200-grain-lead-flat-nose

Rifle velocities can change the game. However, that bullet would need to be soft enough to bump up from .427 to .429.

[Doug.38PR]

Rifle velocities can change the game. However, that bullet would need to be soft enough to bump up from .427 to .429.

It says up to 1600 ft per second.  My Pyrodex loads are between 1200-1300 ft per second

[Roscoe]

It says up to 1600 ft per second.  My Pyrodex loads are between 1200-1300 ft per second

You are missing that hard bullets at low velocities and pressures, cowboy revolvers for example, lead badly, because they don't seal the bore.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

You are missing that hard bullets at low velocities and pressures, cowboy revolvers for example, lead badly, because they don't seal the bore.

  This is generally true, but certainly not written in stone. I had a Lyman mould that dropped .35 wadcutters at .357". They should've leaded the bores of my .357's and .38's and been inaccurate, but such wasn't the case. I suspect when we're only talking about .002", that's .001" all the way around, that some of the lead displaced by the rifling fills the .001" void. Who knows???

CHT

[Roscoe]

  This is generally true, but certainly not written in stone. I had a Lyman mould that dropped .35 wadcutters at .357". They should've leaded the bores of my .357's and .38's and been inaccurate, but such wasn't the case. I suspect when we're only talking about .002", that's .001" all the way around, that some of the lead displaced by the rifling fills the .001" void. Who knows???

CHT

That is a sizing issue rather than hardness.