AZSA Handgun Question

[Bat 2919]

I had a new shooter ask about AZSA Handguns so I thought I would post my response here as well.

Hand guns may start in a holster if you like but many of the ladies costumes don't lend themselves to holsters so none are required.  Most people use a single holstered semi auto pistol , reloading as necessary.  Re holstering is NOT allowed, when you finish the handgun string of fire the pistol must be put down pointed in a safe direction on a table or barrel.  Semi autos may be open and empty or loaded with the safety engaged.  Revolvers only need to be hammer down on an expended round when abandoned. 

You may use as many firearms as you would like.  The up and coming gamer set up right now appears to be two holstered Browning High Power's, at 13 rounds each I don't recall ever seeing anyone need to reload with this configuration.  Those of us (myself included) who use revolver(s) tend to stage several through out the caper and do the "New York Reload" abandoning empty revolvers and picking up another loaded gun whenever need. If you run out of loaded revolvers or chose to use a single revolver you can always reload it as necessary.  The fastest revolver reloads tend to be Colt or S & W 1917's with full moon clips.  Tables and barrels are provided for shooters who want to stage firearms and / or magazines.  Tables must stay where they are but the barrels may be moved around by the shooter depending on where you think you will need your reloads to happen.  Keep in mind that firearms must be abandoned so they're not pointing where you will be moving to finish the caper.

[Cowtown]

I have seen several videos where 1911s are being pulled from a vertical shoulder holster and racked on the clock while pointed downrange similar to Wild Bunch ( except for the vertical shoulder holster part). I seem to remember seeing still pictures and maybe even a video of somebody wearing a dual vertical shoulder holster setup with twin 1911 ala Bruce Willis in Last Man Standing. Quite possibly that one was not done on the clock but just either posed for pictures or for fun as it would be somewhat impossible without a third-hand to rack 2 Pistols simultaneously with your hands already full.

In Zoot pulling a pistol from a vertical shoulder holster without sweeping anything is going to be pretty tough to do (but not impossible) but apparently is allowed. Are horizontal shoulder holsters allowed in Zoot shooting?

[Bat 2919]

Keep in mind that the u tube videos you're watching date back to the early days of the game when the rules were much different than they are today.  Only in the last two or three years have shooters been able to begin a caper with a cocked and locked (condition one) semi auto pistol.   The rules are now very clear about requiring that the 180 may not be broken during the draw.  The original rules (that predated my involvement in AZSA) allowed semi auto pistols to be drawn from horizontal or vertical holsters making no attempt to comply with the 180.  Their thinking was that the semi auto pistols had to be charged on the clock after being pointed downrange and therefore could be safely removed from holsters pointed in any direction.  At that time revolvers were prohibited from being carried in shoulder rigs due to the fact that they did have a round under the hammer when holstered.  The option of beginning in condition three and charging on the clock remains in the rules but breaking the 180 is no longer an option.

The current rules simply require that firearms drawn from the holster may not break the 180 during the draw.  You could still use a horizontal shoulder holster, you would just have to turn your body so the muzzle of the handgun pointed downrange while drawing.  

[Cowtown]

Wow, now that I look a lot of those videos are 5-8 years old already!

Maybe a guy would be better off wearing his Wild Bunch rig underneath his suit coat instead of trying to work with a shoulder holster? Or perhaps just stage the pistols appropriately on whatever table or barrels are available especially if one uses revolvers and employs the New York reload.

Something pretty spiffy about a 1911 in a vertical shoulder holster though...

[Pitspitr]

One of my Zoot persona's is that of a small time cooker. The only way I would have afforded a 1911 was if I brought it home from the Great War with me. As you see I have a WWI army pistol belt with pouches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6f09huxq70

[Cowtown]

This is not Wild Bunch but it looks like you guys do quite a bit of pistol shooting / caper. Is there a standard amount of magazines one should try to carry for your average caper?

[Pitspitr]

I probably carry about 6 mags. Then I scatter more mags about anywhere I can stage one.    No point in running out.

[Tornado]

Are revolver shooters and autoloaders scored in different categories?  Shooters using Hi Powers would seem to have a big advantage.

[Drydock]

Yes.  I won my class of rifle and revolver last year.  But I beat the time of a lot of autoloaders doing it.  It's not as big an advantage as you might think.  One caper called for walking down an alley expending 12 pistol rounds.  So I used 2 Nagant 7 shot revolvers, one in each hand.  Emerging from the alley I engaged another target with the left over Nagant rounds, downed the revolvers, pulled an Iver Johnson 5 shot top break from my boot and finished off two more targets

Gute fun for Bad Czech!  This year I bring Rast unt Gasser!