Percussion caps

[Isbjorn]

Howdy y'all, I'm new here but not new to shooting in general or to BP in particular. I'm hoping someone can give me some info that I haven't gotten on my usual gun forum.

Thing is, I just got a F series 1st Model Dragoon. Seller said it appeared unfired. Took it for granted that it hadn't been modified in any way. Came in the black box (really beat up), with the pamphlets and like that. Not to get into the travail of getting it apart and cleaned and lubed up, what I need now is cap info. I have some Winchester No. 11 caps that go on the nipples, but take a LOT of push force to get them on. Not acceptable. I need to know what brand of 11s go on smoothly but hold tight during holster carry and cylinder rotation.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated, and the repliers will be held in the greatest esteem.

Isbjorn

[Major 2]

The straight forward answer is order a set of Slix-Shot black powder nipples  the you can fit Remington #10 caps or CCI #11
Both rather easy to get....http://longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=267

"IF" the nipples on your 2nd Gen. are indeed OEM (Uberti) then RBS # 11 green Label ( RWS red label are shorter an may poop off under recoil on the Dragoons.)

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/RWS-Number-11-Percussion-Caps/productDetail/Powder-and-Primers/prod9999010780/cat100011

http://www.gamaliel.com/muzzlepercussioncaps/rws_percussion_caps_1075_plus.asp

[hellgate]

I believe the Winchester caps are made by and are identical to the CCI caps. I would recommend you try Remington #11s. The Remington caps are much more forgiving of nipple sizes since the Remmie caps are pre split. They will flare out easier as they are seated. The CCI and RWS caps are much thicker walled and not as accommodative. Slix Shot nipples as suggested will solve your problem and take the #10 Remington cap but try a set of Remington #11s first. If they are too loose then use Remington #10s. I have a plethora of C&Bs. I've only had to swap out the stock nipples on 3 or 4 of the 15+ guns I currently have. Half my guns will take the CCI#11, the other half will take the RWS #1075 (#11) but ALL OF THEM will take the Remington #10s. The Rem #11 fits larger nipples because it is shorter. All of the Ubertis I have will take the Remington#10 w/o replacement of the factory nipples.

Usually a Dragoon has enough hammer slam to set off an incompletely seated cap so your caps must be pretty tight. My guess is if the Remington #11s don't fit (too loose, if so pinch them a bit out of round to use them up plinking) then Rem #10s will.

[Fingers McGee]

What Hellgate said.  I use Rem 10s on all my C&Bs from Walkers to Pocket police made by ASM, ASP, Colt, Palmetto, Pietta, and Uberti with stock, Treso and Slix Shot nipples..  

[Isbjorn]

Wow, thanks to all for the timely responses and great info. Turns out I have a bunch of Rem #10s, but I never thought they'd fit. Soooo, I'll be trying them out tonight. I don't have enough discretionary simoleons to try out every option, so I'm hoping the R10s work out. It'll be a dry run to see if they fit and ignite, w/o powder and ball. I'll let everyone know how it comes out.
Thanks again y'all!

[Pettifogger]

Caps are like shoes.  It doesn't matter what size the box says.  What matters is if they fit.  Each brand of caps has 10s and 11s but that does not mean one brand's elevens are the same as another brand.  If you are going to shoot the thing your best bet is to replace the nipples with quality after-market nipples.

[Isbjorn]

For some reason I thought the cap# was an indication of the internal diameter of the cap. From what I had read, 10s were for handguns, 11s were for muskets and rifles. Pistols are smaller than rifles, ergo I figured 11s were larger around than 10s.
It's good to learn new things!

[Crow Choker]

Isbjorn: A lot of what is in print may or may not be applicable today, even though it may have once been. I've gone back and read book/magazine information about black powder shooting that was written back 30-40 years ago and is no longer valid due to changes in manufacturing, advances in powder/primers, all kinds of things. Some things are the same, some not. Your last post is evidence of those changes. If recall when I bought my first muzzleloader rifle back in the mid 70's, the recommended cap for the model was a #11 Remington, I still have several tins of those around and they are a lot different (bigger dimensions) than current Rem #11's. I have also heard that Winchester #11 caps are made by CCI, whether they are identical, can't tell ya.

All the previous replies are right on. I've found that Rem #10's have always fit well on all my Uberti and several Pietta C&B revolvers with factory nipples. Fit also well on the three after market varieties of nipples I have. I went through all my assortment of revolvers/cylinders with either Treso, SlixShot, Track of the Wolf, or factory nipples on them with Rem #10 and #11's, CCI #10 and #11's, and RWS 1075's checking for fit. Some CCI #10's I bought once upon a time are worthless, to tight to even try and seat with a wood dowel (except one of three Pietta Remington 1858 cylinders. Why just that one, ?, made at different time than the others maybe. I did buy it separately from the rest.). The rest of the herd of caps I have fit well, but I have the best results has others have penned with Rem #10's. Why-probably due to the fact they have a longer skirt (outside and internal height) than the others (except for the RWS which I haven't used much). This allows the cap to be seated more on the tapered nipple, allowing a better grip. CCI #11's are close to Rem 10's. All have similar inside dimensions, but the internal height is what gives some a better gripping ability, ie able to be seated more on the nipple. Also as Hellgate posted, the Rem's have a pleated skirt which allows them to flare on the nipple, giving them a snug fit. I have used CCI#11's with good success, but the Rem #10's are my favorite and most used. My two Dragoons and Walker all three with the factory nipples loved #10 Remingtons.

Check out a post by 'Mako' in the Dark Arts titled 'Cap Gun Primer: Cone Length'. Very informative and telling of current information for shooting cap and balls today. It was written before SlixShot nipples were on the market, but what applies to Treso's can generally be said of SlixShot's as far as fit. If you want to see a good representation of all the different sizes of nipples past and present of what was installed on revolvers, rifles, and shotguns past and present, check out Track of the Wolf's website. Go to the section on their nipple selection and you can see why all the various nipple sizes are found on firearms and the ''some fit, some don't'' situation exists. I have been going to take my collection of cap and balls out this spring, all with either factory, Treso's, Track of the Wolf, and SlixShots on them and have a go shooting with the assortment of percussion caps (brands/sizes) I have on hand on do a report. The Track of the Wolf nipples are similar to Treso's but made of stainless steel. A late, cold, wet spring has put that on hold, along with trying to catch up on yardwork and other projects, but will hit it some nice sunny afternoon.

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Crow Choker -
for ease of viewing I am posting the link to Mako's treatise - it is difficult to find with the forums search feature:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,35696.0.html

yhs
prof marvel

[Isbjorn]

Cheese Loueez... The head spins with all the responses and info. I almost want to go hide in the longship under the oars!
Maybe tonight I'll get to test the R10s. I sure hope they work, and from what I've seen here I'm thinking they will.
Truth be told, My last experience with BP was in the late 70s and early 80s when I lived in AZ and could go shooting all the time.
Now being in the dark jungles of SoCal, things are different.
There's NO WAY I'm going to jump through CA hoops and fees to get centerfire firearms. As soon as I'm able, I'm going to some free states and see where I want to be.

[Fingers McGee]

You will be more than welcome in Missouri.  We have a plethora of BP and C&B shooters in SASS and NCOWS clubs.

[Isbjorn]

I've been seriously considering Missouri. My pappy was born in Independence, and word is I have a touch of Indian in me. Don't know if Cherokee, Missouria or Osage or some mix thereof. Must be on my pappy's momma's side because everyone else is Islandic and/or Germanic. (With a bit o' Scots/Irish and English)
I wouldn't mind puttin' some holes into some stinking redlegs, either.
Thanks for the invite. Might be seen' ya soon!
PS What about reenactors?