Spencer Carbine with confusing serial number

[kevwil]

Hello Ladies & Gentlemen,

I just inherited an 1860 Spencer. It is a carbine with a 22" barrel and the cavalry saddle ring holder. My initial research has told me that 1860 carbines should have serial numbers of at least 11000, but mine is 8694.

If anyone has any history to share about this Spencer and explain the discrepancy, I would be extremely grateful!

Thank you.

[Herbert]

It is one of the early experimental  carbines(you can tell by the Sharps type sling bar) very rare.There is a identical one(with the exception of the rear sight) pictured on page 63 of R.M. Marcot Spencer Repeating Firearms( serial number 7886)

[DJ]

The saddle bar and ring are not standard for a Spencer carbine--it looks like maybe a Sharps or Sharps-like bar and ring added to a rifle receiver.  Attached photo shows a standard M1860 carbine saddle bar and ring.

Now, who installed the non-standard hardware, I couldn't say.  If the barrel is original to the receiver (check to see if the serial number on the bottom of the barrel matches the receiver), and if the barrel is originally a carbine barrel, rather than a shortened rifle barrel, then perhaps it's an early factory mockup or prototype.

Although most of the serial numbers under 10,000 or so are rifles, the SRS records show a significant number of M1860 carbines in that range--for example, SN 8314 is listed as a carbine issued to Indian scouts.  On the other hand, SN 8393 is listed as a rifle.

My guess, based solely on the info here, and in part on the non-standard rear sight, is that someone, sometime, converted a rifle to a carbine.

--DJ

[Two Flints]

Hello all,

I checked my SRS books and serial #8693 is listed as a rifle issued to Company G, 8th Indiana Volunteer Cavalry but no issue date is shown.  So I guess the Spencer Rifle was later converted to a carbine?

Would like to see photos of the entire Spencer, serial # 8694, from end to end!

Two Flints

[Rim fire]

A very interesting find indeed.  Herbert is correct in saying it was an experimental sling ring configuration.  A very early carbine.

[Two Flints]

I'd be curious as to the serial # on the underside of the barrel covered over by the forearm

[Herbert]

Also the diameter of the barrel at the muzell

[kevwil]

Hopefully these help answer some questions.







Sorry I don't have space for a full-length photo at my little workbench.

The muzzle O.D. is approximately 0.830 - it varied from 0.820 to 0.840, didn't seem to be perfectly round, but perhaps that's just accumulated gunk.
The I.D. is approximately 0.530 at the groove. It's a 6-groove barrel.

At some point, I will be curious if I should try to clean this or let it continue to decay, but it's probably to early to decide.

[Herbert]

My calipers are missing (could someone measure the diameter of a 1860 carbine at the muzzle and the diameter of a 1860 army rifle 22 inches from the breach)The action started life as being for a rifle,but the work of fitting the sling bar looks early Spencer to me,a photo of the crown may show weather it was done by Spencer.If this is a early trials carbine(would need to be checked by someone who really knows there Spencers)it is worth much more than a standard CW Spencer and would be worth getting it restored by a expert who knows Spencers