Spring questions

[Pitspitr]

Ok, so I looked through SORI and searched for "spring" and didn't really find what I'm looking for.

I'd like to replace the springs in my original Spencer Carbine. I know I can buy other originals, but I'd really rather replace them with reproductions. This way I can store the originals and put them back in the gun if I ever sell it.

Does anybody sell repro springs or would the springs out of the new made 56-50's fit an original?

[Blair]

Pitsirtr,

What springs is it that you are looking for?
The coil springs, perhaps will interchange.
The 'V' springs such as the mainspring/sear spring and cartridge guide springs do not. (Based on my experience with the earlier reproductions.) How close the newer 'V' type springs are to the originals, I can not say.
My best,
Blair

[Pitspitr]

I'd like to replace all of them except the magazine follower spring as it's already been replaced

[Blair]

Pitspitr,

I have found original Sharps mainsprings to be just a bit too long to fit in an original Spencer.
However, some of the repro Sharps mainsprings may be a bit closer???
My repro Spencer mainspring is too short, thick and quite boxy. Newer models may be some what closer. There are people here that maybe better informed than I on this subject.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
My best,
Blair

[El Supremo]

Hello, Pitspiter:

Have been down that road.

There are two vendors of Spencer springs:
Lodgewood in Whitewater, Wisconsin at 262-473-5444 and
S & S FIREARMS (NOT Sutler9y in Gettysburg) in NEW YORK at 718-497-1100.
Both have originals and may have some repro's.  

The issues I have had are:
There are no repro lock mainsprings for ORIGINAL Spencers.
It may be that the the Shiloh Sharps one will fit.  They have for me, but Blair and I sort of disagree on this.  
The Shiloh one "looks and seems to fit ok", but Blair says that the two fingers that fit the tumbler link may be slightly different.  
If wrong, the top leaf will be cocked and create nasty rubbing as the tumbler rotates.

ORIGINAL mainsprings are available.  I have purchased several.  BUT, they VARY in strength and at least two were visibly 1/8" shorter on the lower, sear leaf end.  Some had inspector's marks in the form of a digit stamped on the flat of the top leaf that lays adjacent to the screw.  Others had no marks.  I suspect that the "thousands of Spencer mainsprings that were condemned" per Marcot, made their way into the post-CW parts market and that many of those are still out there.

The cartridge guide spring's LENGTH also matters.  I have one that was one too short, compared to three others. That one created cycling issues and jams.  

NEVER stretch a coil spring such as the block lifting spring or magazine spring.

I suggest you call Lodgewood and have then hand select a set and then you will just have to try them.  

Please know that the screw THREADS on Shiloh's screws are quite different from those on original Sharps and Spencers.  Also, the Shiloh TUMBLER may look identical to the Spencer's, but the flats that mate with the hammer may not index the Spencer hammer correctly.  

Call Lodgewood.

Please favor us with some photo's.  Yum, yum.  Tx.

Regards,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Pitspitr]

The cartridge guide spring's LENGTH also matters.  I have one that was one too short, compared to three others. That one created cycling issues and jams.  

This is the spring that appears to be causing me the most issues.

I shot it at a match this weekend and it was jamming really badly. IF I could get the first one or two rounds to chamber the rest seemed ok. I was able to (mostly) correct this by not loading to capacity. Another Spencer owner was looking at my carbine and said that my cartridge guide spring was considerably weaker that his. I figured that if I could replace the spring and it helped I'd be happy, If not I wouldn't be out a lot (if I can buy a reasonably priced repro.)

I also thought that if one spring had gone soft maybe I should replace them all at the same time.

[Blair]

Pitspitr,

Kevin offers some very good info. More complete than my own suggestions.
Lodgewood and S&S Firearms are both very good places to check out for original and/or original type like parts to fit your needs.
I would however suggest you provide more info on what it is that you want or need than you have on this thread when you talk with them.
Original springs can be very expensive if they are available, and quality repro's are not cheap either.
My best,
Blair

[Herbert]

I have used the Pedersoli Sharps main spring,and it fits with only a small amount of filing of the hook and the plate pin(this spring improves the trigger pull quite a bit also). S&S has a very good cartridge guide spring

[El Supremo]

Hello, again, Pitspiter:

Need a big favor, please, in the form of some answers:

Is yours a carbine or rifle?

What is the approximate serial number?  We just need the first couple digits with "x's" for the final couple.

When you have the stock off to replace the guide spring, please take a penlight and look into the small hole in the grip portion of the STOCK that covers the guide spring's tail. 

We are researching the presence or absence of a slotted metal wood screw at the bottom of that hole.  It is in many originals and appears to regulate the location of the spring's contact on the guide.  Please do NOT attempt to remove it or change its depth. 

Oh, by the way, it seems that Spencers cycle more smoothly with HARD bullets because the noses are slicker and less prone to be grabbed by sharp edges.  Mine were cycling frustrations until I went to an alloy that I could BARELY indent with my thumb nail.  A good guide spring, alone, may not make cycling smooth or prevent jams.  Try to avoid wheel weights.  Many have zinc in them now; which causes a casting mess.  Zinc cannot be fluxed out of a molten alloy without doing things most are not able to do. 

AND NEVER CYCLE TEST LOADED ROUNDS!  AN INTERRUPTED LEVER MOTION CAN, BUT NOT ALWAYS, BRING THE NOSE OF THE CARTRIDGE GUIDE INTO DIRECT (kaboom) CONTACT WITH A PRIMER.  NO FOOLING!

Many thanks.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Pitspitr]

It's a carbine.

I'll try to get some pictures and post serial # info this evening.

From a collectability stand point it isn't much to look at as the wood has been replaced and the metal has gone brown, but (other than the jamming issue) it's a good shooter.

[Pitspitr]

Serial # is 187**





Haven't had time to take the stock off yet

[Pitspitr]

So as an update to this...
I got the cartridge guide spring from Lodgewood and more brass from Buffalo Arms.
Yesterday I made some dummy cartridges using some of my old brass, but before I did I backed the bullet seating plug out to increase the OAL When I measured The first one I made I found that it was still shorter than the original length. I pulled the bullet and seated them all to 1.631" and it seems to be cycling perfectly. I'm assuming at this point my problems were all from having undersized cartridges.

Now if I can just get tubing that works for my Blakeslee box....