Gatling Gun Cartridges

[Cannonman1]

Not a Spencer specific question but close..
I know that the first Gatling Guns made in Cincinnati in 1863 were consumed in a fire. They were percussion with loose ball and powder loaded into chambers and fired with a cap. When the next batch was made ( 13 total in the summer of 1863) in .58 caliber, they were, according to J. Keller in her book on the Gatling Gun, made to fire the new metallic cartridge (also from a chamber).. A huge improvement on the first copy. Does anyone know when the .58 cal rimfire cartridge was first made?  The Spencer round would have been almost as large but just a tad smaller.
I want to find out if those first Gatlings purchased by Benjamin Butler in 63 were indeed firing a rimfire cartridges!! 

Thanks
Bill

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

My 3d Ed. COTW doesn't list the .58 rimfire as used in the 1865 model of the Allin conversion (The Trapdoor) but here is a shot from a newer edition;

https://books.google.ca/books?id=mZLGoagM_1gC&pg=PA505&lpg=PA505&dq=.58+rimfire+cartridge&source=bl&ots=WUjsIA2m4i&sig=V0hiITLAxscg4muc9zQ5Qke1r7s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF9r-awePPAhVO82MKHYeMDqU4ChDoAQhNMAk#v=onepage&q=.58%20rimfire%20cartridge&f=false

You likely know about this one;  http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Gatling/gatling1862.html

[Blair]

My understanding of the early Model Gatling guns used a flat faced inline firing striker/hammer to ignite the percussion cap on the cartridge barrel/sleeve, this is very much like a modern firing pin.
To set up the bolts in the rim fire would require that inline striker arrangement to be offset by at least 1/2 the diameter of the rim of the rim for the striker to connect with the ignition system of the cartridge casing.
This system could be very much more complex alteration when setting up a rim fire.
The inline striker was much better suited to alteration for a center fire ignition type cartridge than a rim fire. Less modification to the bolts in the Gatling gun!

This is not to say that some experiments were not tried to convert them to rim fire.
I hope this info helps.
My best,
Blair

[Cannonman1]

The Victorian site is very revealing... Indicates that the 12 guns purchased by General Butler were indeed rimfire .58 Gatlings.. That is what I expected as why would there be a need to provide special ammunition if they fired paper cartridges broken down into steel chambers. Fantastic information!!
Thanks
Bill

[Blair]

Cannonman1,

You maybe able to find some very good, related info on the Gatling Gun, if you do a search on the 'Agar' or "Coffee Mill Gun".
The Agar Gun was patented about five years before the Gatling Gun. They are similar in many ways and even caused law suits over patent infringements.
You should also find several people on the NSSA forum that, are or have, built Agar Guns, showing a great deal of info on their builds.

I just did a Google search using "Coffee Mill Gun". A bunch of stuff came up. This may also lead into more info specifically to the Gatling Gun builds that are going on too.
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair

[El Supremo]

Hello:
Sorry to be off the main SPENCER theme.  

A friend has made half-scale 22lr rimfire gatling guns for himself.  I have seen, handled and fired them. I have pictures, but our faces are in most and he's "shy" for good reason, so I won't make him uncomfortable here. The guns work - well!  The only ammunition that cycles and fires reliably is CCI standard velocity.  Other brands are missfire prone.  The only items purchased were rifled barrel blanks at a whopping $8, each.  Every other part he made, almost entirely from scrap brass/bronze that a local scrap yard in Dayton, OH would save.  They took over two years of part time machining, etc.  He said that the internal mechanism to handle rimfire ignition is more complicated and that he had to devise and then cut and try different approaches to finally make them handle rimfire rounds.  So..... he said there should have been no reason that would have prevented someone from doing the same thing way back when.  He is a highly credentialed government medical type, and my life long friend.  His scientific work for our government has directly and significantly helped every human in the U.S.  He makes ingenious firearms related items only for himself and a few friends.  I have won national championships with some of his stuff.  

Next project is one in 9MM.

Anyway, he told me last evening that he did extensive research to try to learn how the rimfire issue had been resolved and never learned of an original rimfire model.  He speculated that such a model would make historical sense as an in-between variant, probably experimental, by COLT.  

So his years of research in the 1980's disclosed no documentation of a rimfire original.  

Respectfully,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[Cannonman1]

Mmmmmm... This puts a fly in the ointment for sure.. I will be calling Springfield museum and get to the bottom of this.. Will post what they say about their second model in their collection.

More later

[Cannonman1]

I have today heard from Springfield Museum and include the letter from the Curator.. It pretty much puts this one to bed I think. The type 2 Gatlings were rimfire.. Until someone comes up with an example to show otherwise.

Curator is speaking about Gatling in their collection and shown on website

Hello,

Thanks for writing (and calling).

It is indeed a Type II 1862 Gatling in our collection. It's definitely set up for rimfire cartridges, though they still use separate chambers. Opening up the gun, you can plainly see the striker arranged to hit the rim of a cartridge, rather than a center-aligned percussion cap.



Alex MacKenzie
Curator
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Springfield Armory National Historic Site
One Armory Square, Suite 2
Springfield, MA 01105-1299
Ph: (413) 271-3971
Fax: (413) 747-8062
Alex_MacKenzie@nps.gov