Two questions about Magtech 12 ga shot shells

[Pappy Myles]

Another thing I discovered with my TTN shells, is the I have been using WLP primers.  They work great in my 45 colt  44-40, etc.
However I had many misfires that I suspect were due to primers that were not fully seated, of a light hit from the hammers.   Now with experimentation after a misfire, it would shoot my AA shells with out a miss. So the high primer has to be suspect.
I've made some modifications to my RCBS hand primer to allow for usage of the RCBS 12 gage shell holder.  But the priming arm is not long enough to fully seat.  SO I seat using the next primer.  Not the safest way to prime.  I also suspect the pocket is somewhat concave on the sides and flow towards the hold,  so when your primed, and thing your fully seated, your really not.  After the 3 or 4th hit, it finally goes off.  So what I thing I may do is ream the base of the primer pocket to ensure its square.

I think I will also trypriming with my bench mounted primer, and maybe use Federal Pistol Primers as I understand they are a tad softer and more sensitive.

[joec]

I posted a picture using the Lee Reloader Press that I use on my bench to do the Magtech primers. Now this setup also works in my Lee Hand Press also but don't generally do it with that. I actually use the Hand press to decap with at the meets between stages.

Just to see I actually with the shell holder I could prime them using the Lee Classic Turret press with the Lee TP Safety Prime Update Kit also. Now I thinking about getting a die made to hold just the decapping pin in place in the turret since the die won't fit a 12 ga shot shell.

[Lefty Dude]

When my Magtech brass is new, and before I do the first reload I prep the cases. The primer pockets are terrible for not being uniform in size. Also the flash hole can be smaller than it should be.
I use a Lyman primer pocket reamer and size the pocket to the proper depth and size. Also use the Lyman flash hole tool and make sure it is the proper size. A number drill #46 can be used as it is the proper size of .081" for the flash hole uniform task.
I then use my case chamfer/ream tool and ream the edge slightly of the primer pocket, this allows the primer to enter the pocket with out being deformed.

You will be surprised at how sloppy Magtech's quality control is with the Brass SG cases when you do the above case/prep.

[Drydock]

Pappy, if you're using 2f BP, try 3f instead.  Several of us have found it works better in shotguns, especialy in our shorter barrel coach guns.  2f seems to push the wad into the shot column as it leaves the barrel, disrupting the pattern.  3fs quicker burn time prevents this, giving more uniform, tighter patterns.  You won't need the plastic shot cup.

[wildman1]

Pappy if yer blowin donuts ya might try less powder and more shot. I learned that from Sir Charles DMB. With my 20 gauge my normal load is 55g 3f and 1 oz shot makes a nice tight 10-12" pattern at 13 yds. I can go to 63 gs 3f and 7/8 oz shot to get about 24" pattern at 13 yds. More powder than that and I get holes in the pattern.  I do use the plastic shot cups with the bottum cut off. WM

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Pappy if yer blowin donuts ya might try less powder and more shot. I learned that from Sir Charles DMB. With my 20 gauge my normal load is 55g 3f and 1 oz shot makes a nice tight 10-12" pattern at 13 yds. I can go to 63 gs 3f and 7/8 oz shot to get about 24" pattern at 13 yds. More powder than that and I get holes in the pattern.  I do use the plastic shot cups with the bottum cut off. WM

Muchas Gracias;  Sir CMB  (sub-aka Don Carlos.  sub-sub-aka El Chakal)  I learned by reading a lot, followed by a check by shooting.  Listening to cascity Pards can be very instructive.  Even 3 Centuries ago it was known that less powder than lead would improve patterns and increase killing effect.

[Pappy Myles]

Thanks Lefty, Drydock, and Wildman

No kidding about the sloppyness of uniforimity.  I did get a flash hole reamer and ream out the holes.  It wasnt until this round I started getting serious about mag tech shells.  When I get home next week (been on assignment in Canada for 2 years), I'm planning on really working over the pockets with a reamer, uniformer, etc.

I'll have to try 3f on my next load.   I've been using pryodex (primarily because I've was given about 8 lbs of the stuff)  with a square load, using a lee adjustable shot cup set at 1 1/8 oz for both powder and shot.   Think I'll cut it down to 4 CC cup for the powder from my lee scoops and see how that works.

Think I'll also go to GOEX.     Also, anyone try 777 with this?  I know its another substitute, but suspose to be a little cleaner burning....

[hellgate]

It is so easy to check the pattern on your shotgun. All you need is a roll of butcher paper, a cardboard box, staple gun, and a marker pen. Staple a sheet of paper to the box, mark an aiming point, get back 10 yards and blast it. Not only will you see the pattern but you may also find your gun shoots wide of your aiming point. I had an IGA Coach gun once that was "walleyed". Left barrel low & left, right barrel high & right. No wonder I was getting misses called.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Pappy;  I suppose its OK to try FFFg, but I have not seen the need personally.  Be careful on load levels as FFFg is noticeably faster than FFg.  I did a chrono test with my pedersoli mortimer flinter.  50 gr of FFFg gave similar velocites to 70 gr FFg. FASTER MEANS MORE PRESSURE. I know our modern-made guns are MUCH stronger than in-the-day, but I would recommend starting much lower with the FFFg.

I recall in the old but good magazine SHOOT! that Aussie competitors travelling the big shoots in the US would order custom loads as low as 25 gr FFFg under an AA white wad. (musta been the only components they could find in the Aunty-Podes at the time!) I'm not saying you should  do the same, but what you might think as ridiculously low might work.  I don't think its being GAMEY, and you might find that it works.

I have shot trap reasonably successfuly with just under 60 gr of FFg and 1 oz of lead. Lays the knock-downs over with a hekuva KLANG as well. BTW: The pattern at 15 yards fits in a 1 foot circle from a full length choked barrel.

P.S.  I agree with hellgate pattern your gun with the loads you intend to shoot.  Hellgate; try less shot as it might make your barkeeps friend less walleyed.

[Paladin UK]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........I want this to go No Further....

Puk`s Top Secret   12g Steel Buster Load Mk2...
49gns ffg   
1x Orange carton wad
1x card wad
1x Clay-game reloaders wad
1x card wad
1x carton wad
1x Puk`s lubed wad
1x over lube wad
1oz Shot
1x Card over shot wad
Clear Sealant

Knocked down everything in sight on Sunday with authority, including a popper about 30ft away!!

Paladin (Wut lurvs his Scattergun ) UK

[Abilene]

I've been loading brass 12 Ga. for about a dozen years or so.  I do not have any Magtech but do have some old Rem-UMC and Winchester, which are about the same as the Magtech, plus some Alcans which are a little thicker, and a handful of the heavy-duty Rocky Mountain Cartridge shells.  I tried fiber wads in the past but the pattern in my "modern" guns (Baikal, Liberty II, and TTN) is better with plastic wad.  The plastic cleans out of the bores easily.  My load: approximately 58-60gr of BP (formerly Elephant FFg, then Goex Cowboy, now Goex FFg), Circlefly 11ga overpowder nitro card, red winchester wad (now claybuster equivalent since Winchester discontinued the red wad), 1 1/8 oz shot, Circlefly 11ga overshot card, sealed with Elmers wood glue (formerly with waterglass until my supply dried up).  This is the exact same load I use when I load in plastic hulls (gold STS hulls, since they look sorta like brass   ), minus the overshot and overpowder cards.  The overpowder nitro card is needed because the plastic wad is a bit undersized for the brass shells.  In the Winchester and Rem-UMC shells, a 10 ga. overshot card would fit better but the 11ga is a good compromise for the various other hulls I use.  It wants to move around when I am swirling the wood glue around the edges with a q-tip, so I hold it in place with a dental pick in the center while I swirl the glue.  I use a 4.3 cc Lee dipper somewhat below full for the FFg, I just eyeball it, not critical.  Probably about 4cc.  I seat the wads and drop the shot with a Lee Load-All 2.  Rarely have a problem with knckdowns.  

As for priming / depriming:  To deprime, I hold the shell in my left hand over a trashcan, insert a homemade punch tool inside and find the flash hole by feel, then while holding the shell and the protruding part of the punch in my left hand, I give a rap to the punch with a wooden mallet to knock out the spent primer.  I then lay out fresh primers on a smooth table surface, place the shell over a primer and push it down by hand which gets the primer barely started into the pocket.  Then set the shell in the priming station of the Load-All and seat it there.

After the glue is dried on the loaded shells, I drop each one into the chambers of my TTN.  The ones that don't slide in/out smoothly get a red sharpie mark across the base.  These I will use when shotgun targets end the stage, as pulling them out of the barrels by hand will be off the clock.  I do have a homemade sizing tool (bar of steel with .795" hole bored in it - drive a lubed shell in and then out of it), which I will occasionally use on hulls that get a little out of round, but sometimes they revert back to their oval-ness (some of the shells are really really old), so I always check them again after loading and mark with the sharpie as needed.

[1860Henry]

In my shells, the hot glue did leave residue in the barrel. I then went to wax as a sealer for the OS card (all of this in CBC brass 12 gauge shells). The wax would turn loose and let the shot column rattle or spill. I then tried Elmers clear glue and it did well for a time, but had many failures. I have ordered some waterglass and am hoping for better success with my loads.

Chris

[reloader4410]

When I was shooting brass 12 ga I used lee Alox  the bullet coating, for over shot cards worked good. HAPPY TRAILS.