How durable is the 1873? (repro or Winchester)

[Doug.38PR]

How quick to things break on it?   What breaks on it? 

I understand the 92 is more durable, but how far does that go? 

[Pettifogger]

Durable?  What is this supposed to mean?  Many of the originals are still being shot.  A race tuned 73 used in competition is shot tens of thousands of rounds per year.  Unless you are very young you won't live long enough to wear one out.  What breaks?  Not much that is one of the reasons they are so popular for competition.  There aren't many parts in them.  If something breaks replacement parts are easy to come by.  What will break?  You won't know until it does.  The only part I have had break during a match is a screw.  The head popped off and the part it was retaining rattled around inside untill I could get the side cover off to replace the screw.  The 73 is an extremely simple machine.  That is why they are so durable.

[hp246]

I've shot a 92, a 73 and am currently using a 66.  The only one that "broke"  was the 92.  The loading gate snapped off.  I also had problems with it consistently feeding.  No such problem with either the 73 or 66.  Just my .02.

[Coffinmaker]

Plus One to Pettifogger.  Your reference to "Repro" or "Winchester" is ...... unclear.  By Repro, do you mean Uberti, Mirouku, or Chaparral??
And, by "Winchester" do you mean an original made by Winchester??  Or referencing a 73 made by Mirouku, which is actually a
reproduction.
Reiterating what Pettifogger said, with a Uberti built 73, or a Mirouku built '73 (reproductions), properly maintained, they will last a lot
longer than you will.  Properly maintained Winchester original '73s have already lasted longer than you will, and will continue to function
long after you won't 

Coffinmaker

[Steve S.]

     I do not have the experience others do on this sight but my limited ownership of my Miroku Winchester feels like an extremely solid and well made rifle; I would think that with normal cleaning and lube that a rifle of this quality will shoot for much longer than my needs - much, much longer. As others have said, a simple but functional machine.

[Baltimore Ed]

An interesting question but flawed. My experiences with the 3 italian 1873/76 rifles that I have purchased new is that they were broken when I got them. The first one was a 30 in bbl 73 that had a absolutely useless bbl. It spent a year at the Chappy importer in Texas while a replacement bbl came from italy. The second was a RCMP 76 carbine with toggle issues that was a active post here last year. The last was a 73 carbine that has soft screws and springs replaced to get right. All 3 took a substantial amount of effort to get to where they should have been when they left the factory, they do work now but are not my match guns. My 3 Marlins I've owned came from the factory 100% without any problems. The 1894s had one piece firing pins installed and after a lot of shooting my main match rifle developed the Marlin jam but I repaired it and it's still my match favorite. With my experience, I would have to say that your question needs to be -after repairs and competition upgrades- how durable are 1873s?

[Pettifogger]

An interesting question but flawed. My experiences with the 3 italian 1873/76 rifles that I have purchased new is that they were broken when I got them. The first one was a 30 in bbl 73 that had a absolutely useless bbl. It spent a year at the Chappy importer in Texas while a replacement bbl came from italy. The second was a RCMP 76 carbine with toggle issues that was a active post here last year. The last was a 73 carbine that has soft screws and springs replaced to get right. All 3 took a substantial amount of effort to get to where they should have been when they left the factory, they do work now but are not my match guns. My 3 Marlins I've owned came from the factory 100% without any problems. The 1894s had one piece firing pins installed and after a lot of shooting my main match rifle developed the Marlin jam but I repaired it and it's still my match favorite. With my experience, I would have to say that your question needs to be -after repairs and competition upgrades- how durable are 1873s?

If you are talking Chapparals it is well known they were and remain junk.  Ubertis, the new Miroku Winchester and original Winchesters are completely different animals.  73s are the top gun for high levels of competition.  If they weren't reliable they would not be the overwhelming facovorite CAS rifle.

[Coffinmaker]

Another Plus One to Pettifogger.
The offerings from Chaparral were and are so bad, and the "replacement parts" were so bad, I finally refused to accept them for work.
Most of the time, the customer had more money in after-purchase repair work than the original selling price.  Pure KRAP!!

I also understand, there were a few that actually worked as advertised.  Maybe one in 20 to a hundred.  So, to those few prepared to
add comments and extols the virtue of their unique single example, don't break it.  There are NO parts.  Making a Chaparral actually
function is an exercise in futility, no mater what the purchase price.  Very expensive and flashy Tomato Stake.

Coffinmaker

[Baltimore Ed]

I was incorrect in that my rifle with a bad 30 inch bbl was a Cimmaron Arms/uberti, the 76 RCMP carbine was the Chappy. As to the op question, in my experience, firing pins, extractors, ejectors and cracked wood are the most common issues but a firearm should operate 100% and be reasonably accurate. To spend 1200.00 plus on a uberti 73 and then have to invest another 500.00 to make it into a Codymatic race gun is not what the op is referring to. I would hope that an average shooter would get a lifetime or two of use from a $$$ slicked up, rebuilt 73. This would make an interesting poll. Out of the box 73 vs short stroked 73 vs 94s and regular shooters (1 match a month and 1 state or regional match a year) vs a competitive shooter (2 + monthly and 2 big matches yearly). Durability should start with the base firearm not the aftermarket parts.

[The Pathfinder]

Well, all of my '73s are still up and running. Two 2nd model Winchesters made in 1881 and 82, a Uberti I bought in 1982 and an Armi San Paolo made around the same time as the Uberti. I like the originals so much I'm building up a third 2nd model from parts just for he experience and fun. At least that's what I keep telling myself when I see the cost of parts.

[bear tooth billy]

I've got an original 73, made in 1882, the year Jesse James was killed. I paid $950 for
it 10 years ago, had it relined for $200 and put a couple springs in it. So it's 134 years
and shoots great. I've put a couple thousand rounds through it, so I'd say it's pretty
durable and it's worth probably worth 40-50 times the original purchase price.

                         BTB

[Doug.38PR]

I was incorrect in that my rifle with a bad 30 inch bbl was a Cimmaron Arms/uberti, the 76 RCMP carbine was the Chappy. As to the op question, in my experience, firing pins, extractors, ejectors and cracked wood are the most common issues but a firearm should operate 100% and be reasonably accurate. To spend 1200.00 plus on a uberti 73 and then have to invest another 500.00 to make it into a Codymatic race gun is not what the op is referring to. I would hope that an average shooter would get a lifetime or two of use from a $$$ slicked up, rebuilt 73. This would make an interesting poll. Out of the box 73 vs short stroked 73 vs 94s and regular shooters (1 match a month and 1 state or regional match a year) vs a competitive shooter (2 + monthly and 2 big matches yearly). Durability should start with the base firearm not the aftermarket parts.

Right.  I was considering buying a Rossi 92 carbine, but thinking further,  I understand the Uberti Winchester 73 to feel a lot nicer in lever action cycle.  I was just wondering how durable things were in it.   

As a comparison to what I'm thinking:  I have a Ruger New Vaquero .45 and my dad has a Cimarron Uberti .45 Single Action Army (Or Cattleman).   Springs and things start breaking and need to be replaced LONG before anything breaks on the Ruger.   It's a common problem on my Pietta 1851 Navy ball and cap too. 

[Baltimore Ed]

Doug, I wore out a big loop Rossi 92 in about a year when I first started cas. They replaced the rifle and I sold it, I used the money towards a used Marlin Cowboy Limited. I did replace the lawyer designed 2 piece firing pin with a one piece pin. I eventually replaced the rusty mag tube internal parts with s/s parts and a second broken firing pin. Eventually I wore out the lifter and started having problems but repaired it with jb weld and a small piece of coping saw blade. It's been running like a top for years now. You should get SOME service from a new gun before you have to start changing stuff out to make it work. I have handled a 73 that had been rebuilt into a Codymatic and it was very, very nice and $$$. It depends on how much you want to spend and how competitive you want to be. As you pointed out, I have yet to replace a spring in any of my ruger vaqueros. but I have cut coils to make them duelist friendlier. I've also replaced Colt New Service mainsprings with Official Police mainsprings to make them easier to shoot. Good luck.

[Coffinmaker]

Baltimore Ed,
I don't recall making any reference in my answers to "Codymatics" or "Race Guns" or even alluding to that being a necessity for a
quality reproduction to outlast the owner.  You got that from What??

Pettifogger's response only addressed the popularity of the reproduction '73s when built into "race guns," to punctuate the durability
and quality of the base product.  Neither of us made reference to big dollars or aftermarket parts.  Since you seem so concerned ....

Original Winchester 1873s would wear out rather quickly if subjected to the use we put CAS guns to.  There is a very good mechanical
reason to change out overly heavy and wear causing OEM springs.  The OP asked a very base question, which we answered from the
standpoint of experience gained in YEARS of gunsmithing.  Building base guns into competition guns is an entirely different subject.

Coffinmaker

Ding Ding Ding ........ another WINNER!!

[Baltimore Ed]

Pettifogger's 4th sentence mentions 'a race tuned 73', i.e. short stroked, etc. Anyway, I was pointing out that the op needs to decide if he is referring to a stock rifle or a race rifle. As I said durability should start with the base gun not the aftermarket parts unless the rebuild is your starting point.

[Grapeshot]

I own or have owned three A.Uberti 1873 Winchester reproductions.  The Carbine was Originally in .44 WCF when I bought it in 1981, I had it re-barreled and chambered in .45 Colt in 1982.  It still shoots like a house afire.

The 2nd '73 was a 30 inch military musket in .45 Colt.  I liked it for the Character I portrayed, but it was kind of unwieldy with that long barrel. 

The last '73 I purchased was a short rifle in .44 WCF.  This one was a used rifle that I had to have timed to operate properly and needed to replace one of the lifter springs that broke at a match.

That was 10 years ago.  I haven't had a problem with it since.  I've shot over 1000 rounds of BP powered cast bullets out of the short rifle and it is still capable of putting all ten rounds in a 3 inch bull's eye target at 25 yards.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 My oldest original '73, is an 1886 production. I have no idea how much it's been fired, but it's been carried so much over the last 130 years with a hand wrapped around the forearm and barrel just ahead of the receiver, that the caliber stamp is almost worn off and the wood just ahead of the receiver is visibly worn. The bore was trashed from shooting black powder, so I had it lined, the magazine tube was bent near the muzzle, and the dust cover flops from side to side, but mechanically, she's as good and solid as ever and will run as fast as one wants to run it.

  I have a buddy that's a rabid CAS shooter who shoot a '73 Uberti short rifle in .357. After many, many thousands of rounds he's only replaced one firing pin. My newest '73 Uberti is a saddle ring carbine in .44 Magnum and it, in its original condition, is a very, very slick operating rifle, much more so than any other non-modified Uberti I've ever owned or handled.

  Some of these other guys have really nailed it in that the '73's are so mechanically simple, there's far less to go wrong than with the '92's. I also own a Rossi '92 and I've gone through it and slicked it up and got it running smooth and fast, but to me, it's just not the rifle the '73's are.

Just my non-expert 2¢...

CHT

[Major 2]

Other's mileage may vary  ....

about 10 years ago, I purchased a  73 short rifle ...the PO had had the works action job by the Cowboy & Indian Store "smith "
3rd generation short stroke , springs firing pin ...slick as butter on warm glass ....

The guy did all this, and then decided SASS even CAS was not for him I suppose ...So while this was going on  I had put the question out " I was looking for a 44 Spec. short rifle , I had mentioned I was shooting NCOWs so no SS was wanted or needed...
Well , the guys contacts me , sends the photos of his new Rifle never mentions the SS just says  its smoooooooooth ....
It looked as new in box ...
So, at his asking price mid- 800's I figure, I'll buy it and we agree to the price shipped....

Course when it arrive, it is everything the guys said it was... and more   the 3 gen short stroke ...globe front sight , clean as pin & slick as snot....

First I remove the 3rd Gen for polished OEM Lever & links , retain the FP, and give the Cowboy & Indian store springs a  chance.

Sold the Short stroke, & the globe sight .... added a Rocky Mountain German silver front sight ....and that was 10 years ago
the gun is my main match, and other that a minute adjustment "Once" to the main spring external tension screw to assure solid primer strikes every-time.... it has served me all to well....

The moral.... before you spend cubic dollars on your new 73 ...be sure you are committed to CAS, SASS or NCOWS
or just go ahead and plan to blow $400 - $500  in the latest & greatest trick of the month .

A new in box 73 can run north of $1100-1200 ..add the Action work &  wiz bang parts and you are looking @ $1500-1600 clams
then... life , the wife,  or for some other reason...you bow out .... and the next guy gets your sweet rifle for $800 bucks ...

10 years and ...many matches later, I'm still glad that guy contacted me...

as I said "other mileage my vary"