Winchester vs CCI primers in Spencer

[Tuolumne Lawman]

In my last range session with the 56-50, I had two HARD primers that I had to drop twice on.  A pard I was with asked what kind of primers.  I told him CCI.  He said they are the hardest, and to try Winchester Large magnum rifle.

The funny thing is that I always had used Winchesters almost exclusively. In the last year, however, the local gun shop quit carrying Winchesters, and just has CCI and Federal, so I switched to CCI.

Well, I just conducted a moderately unscientific experiment.  I fired primers only in empty cases in the 56-50.  CCI and Winchester Magnum rifle.  The winchester has a distictly deeper firing pin dent than the CCI, implying the Winchesters are softer and react to the Taylor's inertial firing pin easier.

Secondly, I did it out the window at night.  The Winchester produced a much more pronounced flame out the end iof the barrel than the CCI! It seemed to have almost twice the volume.

Seems like Winchester primers are in order!

[Dakota Widowmaker]

That is why I have switched all my loads over to Winchester.

I had heard they were more powerful and easier to set off than CCI

My 2 exceptions are loads for my double action revolver are using federal 200, and my M! garand uses CCI #34 (or is it #41?) large rifle MILITARY primers to prevent slam fires.

[Harve Curry]

I was reading an article in the August 2005 issue of Handloader magazine about pressure and velocity. In it was a comparison of Winchester and CCI primers. All else being the exactly same, the CCI primers could and did produce higher pressure with almost no velocity change.
Pressure was 10,000 PSI more!

I will be stocking more CCI primers just for that reason.

Ive used all makes of primers and the only time I've had a failure to ignite it was usually a very weak hammer drop or a contaminated primer. The heavy hammer of a Spencer should fire any primer.
Has the hammer spring been altered??

[Grizzle Bear]

Important Note:

Last time I was shooting my Spencer, I had several rounds that would not go off, even with repeated hits.  Thought they were just bad.  When I got home and was cleaning the rifle, I noticed the hammer bar was kind of wiggly, and the heads of the two screws were showing they had been rubbing.  Both screws were loose.  This might be your problem.  I have reassembled the firing pin assembly and Loktited the screws.  Haven't been out to see if it would set off those dud rounds.

Grizzle Bear

[Tuolumne Lawman]

howdy,

NOpe, not a loose hammer, and the spring has not been modified.  I tried some CCI pistol primers vs Winchester.  Same result.  The dent in the WW was distinctly deeper.

The spencer inertial firing pin does not have much mass, so a harder primer would make a difference.

I still use the CCFIs on my 50-70 Rolling block Triple Seven load of 67 grains volume with a 450n rgn Lee bullet.  Works like a charm.  If it isn't broke, don't fix it!

I am stoping on my way home to buy WWs for the SPencer.  I'll still use my CCIs on the 50-70, 45 Schofield, 44 Colt, and 44-40s.

[Harve Curry]

Is the Taylor's Spencer firing pin one piece?

I know my original rimfire is one piece, and so is the custom central fire block I replaced it with.

Would that make a difference?

I'd post a picture of the original block/pin but I don't know how to go about it.

[Drydock]

The Taylors is 2 piece, with the sideplate block striking a spring loaded floating firing pin.

[Sloan Dodgy]

The Taylors are two pieces, but the pieces are rigidly attached by two screws.  On mine the setup does not appear to be purely inertial as with the hammer down the firing pin protrudes mechanically from the breech face.

One thing, though - of the two Taylors Spencers I have, the most recent .56-50 has a hammer that clearly strikes only the firing pin/slider assembly when it falls.  With the earlier one, a .44 Russian, the underside of the hammer 'head' actually impacts the top of the action body just as the hammer nose reaches the pin/slider assembly.  Both hammer and action body have become slightly peened where they contact and I need to grind a bit off the underside of the hammer to prevent further damage and possible poor ignition.  I have had no ignition problems so far, though, except when the screw holding the hammer to its axle backs out from time to time. 

[Drydock]

The 2 screws hold the transfer block to the side plate.  The firing pin is seperate from this assy, floatiing in the breech block with its own spring. I suppose you could say that the firing pin assy is a 4 piece unit.  (sideplate, transfer block, firing pin and spring.

[Sloan Dodgy]

D'oh!  Right you are, four parts to the works. Thanks! 

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Well, I took a pair of used Win LR primers and took out the anvils.

I cleaned out the pocket and pounded out (as best I could) the firing pin dent.

I took the "white" off of 6 diamon "strike anywhere" matches, ground it up, added a few drops of distilled water, and then placed that material in the cups.

I set them asside on top of the oven while it was heating up some bullet lube.

Came back 15min later and the primers were dry.

I replaced the anvils and loaded them into some brass shells.

popped them one at a time in my spencer...

WHAT A JOKE!!!

I have fire LRM and LP primers alone in my rifles and such and they make a sound that is unmistakable.

These were more of a "pft" and a teenie tiny wiff of smoke.

Anyone who thinks this would set off a 56-50 cartridge is kidding themselves... it might go bang, but, you are most certainly going to have a hang fire.