Anyone using .452/.454 dia. lead balls for CAS pistol loads?

[Steel Striker]

Looking for saving $$ reloading for CAS; currently paying $38/500 .452, 200gr, hardcast lead pills. 

Has/is anyone using lead balls of proper dia. for their 45LC loads?  I can see 5-grains Trailboss & ball taper crimped at its dia.

I would like to cast my own, utilizing my hard won CWW stock of 300+#.  Yup, that would save $.08/rnd, eh.  Thanks for your time.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Yes, it works. SASS rule demand that the projectile must be visible ahead of the case mouth.  I do it with an old German Reichsrevolver, but due to its age I only loaded black. I'll let others talk about the other stuff, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I assume you already have the mould? New moulds are all basically in the same priceranges. Places like ebay, or your local gunshow will almost always have .45 moulds available. So, why not cast bullets?

[Good Troy]

Here's some discussion on using a 45 S&W (Schofield) cartridge with a round ball.
I've loaded the 45 S&W with 25 g of 3F BP, placed a wounderwad on top, and seated a .451 round ball to just about midpoint (equator) with the seating die.  This is the same loading I use in a cap and ball 44 cal.  It is a rather mild load.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55453.msg669760.html#msg669760

[Coffinmaker]

Yep.  Works a treat.  I've loaded Round Ball in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield and C45S cases.  Both BP and that Heathen other stuff.  With reduced
loads, you get what were, in those Halcyon days of Yesteryear, called "Gallery Loads."  Very Mild.  In all honesty, I'm lazy and don't like
to mess with all sorts of "lubes" and "greases" so I normally load APP.  No lubes required.  With C45S I load a full case of either 2 or
3F.  With that Heathn stuff, I load the same as published data for a 160Gr bullet.  No problems with leading with Round Ball.
Surprisingly accurate. 
Now for the really good part.  Also works a treat in 45-70 cases with a filler.  Shoots like a laser.  Does however, start to wander around
shooting past 100 yards or so.

Coffinmaker

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I tried .454. balls sized .452 giving a nice flat belt to crimp with half the ball showing. My tests showed that using .7c/c FFFG, a lube wad and filler made  a nice gallery load that might be OK for SASS but would be the "gamer" load to end all "gamer" loads.
For practice just forget the filler, load a .45 Colt case like a percussion cylinder ie powder, wad, ball and blast away. Primer set back was solved by using Starline blank cases that have a larger flash hole.
Interesting idea however I may try the smokes somewhat less load with Trail Boss and the ball crimped at the case mouth.
Your obt' svt'
Bunk

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Bunk !!   

Gotcha.  Ha!! So there.  Gamer you say??  Gamer??    I, thank you very much, am the personification of the ultimate, consulate,
recoil shy GAMER!!  Card carrying, Dyed in the wool GAMER!!  YEP!!  THAT'S ME!!  So .......

I shoot 2F APP in a Cowboy 45 Special case full up with a a 452 Round Ball (as cast or swaged) and crimp into the equator.  What a trip.
Very mild and controllable and with APP I skip the lubes.  Absolute FUN!!!  Haven't tried the blank cases with the big flash hole but it
sure should work a treat.  Same she flash hole I use to use for primer drives rubber bullets. 

Coffinmaker

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Maker of Coffins
e aremoving in the same direction because I shot .45 Cowboy Action with a very modest amount Gun Powder and a 160 grain bullet in my open top revolvers.
About the same thing just a little different smelling smoke.
Not a gamer just arthritis and old age but ,like you, still having fun.
Bunk

[Steel Striker]

Thanks everyone;

I'm encouraged to get me some .452 balls and load away.  Right now I'm buying 200gr LRN pills @ $38/500.

Why don't I cast boolits?  If crimping plain lead balls works for CAS shooting, then I'm saving money, lead & time lubing.

I'm using 5gr of Trailboss now, with annealed cases for clean shooting.  I'll start using same load with the approx. 160gr balls & see how that feels.  Gotta try it man...

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks everyone;

I'm encouraged to get me some .452 balls and load away.  Right now I'm buying 200gr LRN pills @ $38/500.

Why don't I cast boolits?  If crimping plain lead balls works for CAS shooting, then I'm saving money, lead & time lubing.

I'm using 5gr of Trailboss now, with annealed cases for clean shooting.  I'll start using same load with the approx. 160gr balls & see how that feels.  Gotta try it man...

My Good Striker -
That should work well for you. 

One thought, when you go to cast your own, try both soft lead and wheelweights.

I generally use undiluted wheelweights for cylinderical cartridge bullets( ie  normal 250 gr .452 ) lubed with alox , and soft lead for C&B roundballs, so I just use the soft lead in the RB cartridges. Reduced smokeless loads with soft RB have worked very well for me in .38 / .357 revovlers, .45 Colt revolvers and .30 rifles of various pursuasions. I find it efficatious to size an oversized soft lead RB which produces a tiny band that I can crimp upon.

Remember that Case Volume shoould stay consistant, so seating the ball to the same place and crimping consistantly is important!
I got drastically more velocity ( and most likely more pressure) by seating the ball deeper on very light loads of Unique.
(Remember also that certain powders are more volume sensitive than others).

When shooting drastically reduced gallery loads into soft media I can actually recover and re-use the RB! More fun than Wax Loads!

yhs
prof marvel

[Steel Striker]

Prof Marvel;
Thanks for the encouragement.  I understand sizing, but that would negate a main advantage to me, of setting the balls in place quickly, compared to aligning that flat equatorial band onto the case mouth. 

Well, I'm still seein' casting my own balls, however all I can find are .451" dbl cavity moulds.  Anyone know of a .452" ball mould?

Think the .451's will engrave asymmetrically & fly off everywhere?  Thanks again for your comments.

[rickk]

just as an FYI, there are .457 balls and ball molds as well. The Ruger Old Army prefers them. If you run on thru a .452 LEE bullet sizer you will get a nice "belt" on it.

[Coffinmaker]

Personally, when loading Round Ball into cartridges, I have had no reason to run the Ball(s) thru a sizer.  I am loading in Cowboy 45 Special
cases with full case of APP.  I simply crimp the case into the equator of the ball. 

I don't cast my own Ball, I just order from a supplier who casts .452 balls and load away.  I have also had quite good results with commercial swaged 451 ball.  YMMV

Coffinmaker

[Steel Striker]

Coffinmaker;

What's your source of .452" balls?  I'm only finding .451" or .454" dia. 

Can you tell me what 'accuracy' you've gotten from which revolvers?  I'm running New Vaq's in 45LC & wondering if using .451" balls will not engrave properly/sufficiently to use in the short range CAS stages.  Just curious, at what range did your .451's 'start walking', & which revolver was used?

If you encourage me to go ahead & use the .451's, I'll buy a box & experiment, rather than holding out for finding .452's.  I'll be back home in 2 weeks, so would like to hit the ground running then, so to speak.

Thanks again for your time to comment & appreciate everyone's feedback on this terrific forum.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Being cheap, I cast. Being very cheap, I use wheel weight metal. As WW is harder, being alloyed with zinc & tin, it results in a slightly larger product. I get WW roundball at .452 from a .451 mould. I use them successfuly in percussion revolvers.

[Steel Striker]

Sir Charles;

So I take it that crimping at their equator is sufficient to prevent the ball 'setting back' into the case from recoil?  Even if some do, does it really matter?  I'm thinking, not.

RE: the Marlin 1894; I'll have to experiment with empty cases to see how they load?!?  If not reliable, then I'm only saving half the $$ I was anticipating, by using balls.

Thanks & nice hearing from you.

[Good Troy]

I fear the round ball could set off a primer in the tube during recoil.  So, I'd recommend not using them in any tube feed lever gun.  I use only flat-nosed bullets in my lever guns.

[wildman1]

If you are using smokiless in your RB loads and the RB sets back into the case under recoil you will increase pressure a lot because of reduced airspace in the case. wM1

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Steel Striker; I haven't loaded a .45 in this way. As I posted on 4 May, I have loaded RB in my Reichsrevolver, basically a .44 Russ., with a .440 RB run through a .430 lubrisizing die. I seated the ball just so the flat belt was inside the case but some lead was ahead of the case mouth. It could be done in your .45 and a crimp put in the case. You could apply a bit of SPG in the the space around the curve of the ball as it will be a bit down into the case.

As Good Troy says, I'd be really leary doing this in a tube magazine, and really nervous if it were a Henry where rounds can be "dropped" down the loading slot.

My experiernce was only with revolvers.

I do use .45 Colt cases to hold pre-loads for .44 percussion revolvers. I size the case without removing the primer. drop in my percussion load of BP, and press the .452 ball onto the mouth of the case. 5 or 6 can be wrapped in foil and carried in a cap pouch, or stored in a 44/45 ammo box. In use, I pinch off the ball and pour the powder into the cylinder. Press in a lubed wad and ram the ball on top. I call them "Mongoose pre-loads" as I learned the trick from a guy with the handle "Mongoose" who briefly posted on and old forum, now expired. (.357 cases work well for .36 revolvers)

[Steel Striker]

Sir Charles;

So I take it that crimping at their equator is sufficient to prevent the ball 'setting back' into the case from recoil?  Even if some do, does it really matter?  I'm thinking, not.

RE: the Marlin 1894; I'll have to experiment with empty cases to see how they load?!?  If not reliable, then I'm only saving half the $$ I was anticipating, by using balls.

Thanks & nice hearing from you.

Aside from the safety aspect, The 1894 DOES NOT CYCLE "empty" 45LC cases.  Thus if a ball setback, they ain't shootin' no more! 

[Baltimore Ed]

I reload .452 rnfp for my .45 cowboy loads and .454 rnfp bullets for my Colt, Smith and Webley .455s but will try casting some .457 rb out of wheel weights to resize down to .454 for my Webley .450 Constabulary revolver. Sounds like a neat idea.