USPFA/USFA 1860 Army on gunbroker

LonesomePigeon · May 20, 2016, 01:45:48 AM

I am 99.9% certain this is a USPFA/USFA made 1860 Army. High bid went to $950 last time but the reserve was not met and it's been reposted. Do you guys agree it's USPFA/USFA?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/559753645

Major 2 · May 20, 2016, 04:53:58 AM

I'll agree is a USPFA it's not made by them but imported... this early one may also have been finished before it saw the USA.
Uberti made these, there may even be a tie in-with Iver Johnson when Lou Imperato owned it and was wrapping up his own so call Signature Series Colts ...

BTW there were ...best sit down for this ....ASM manufactured USPFA's

I owed one, it was a conversion ....nice nice revolver, still kicking myself for letting it get away

Edit: The Good Capt. had me revisiting the link photo....

I misread the address line ...saw the Patent DoH! .... Pt. F A totally over looked COLT

Coffinmaker · May 20, 2016, 03:05:20 PM

Really nice gun. It's truly a shame a previous owner did not recognize it was out of time, or more likely, had NO CLUE not to drop the hammer from half cock and created a "ring around the cylinder." Some people should never be allowed around fine firearms.

Coffinmaker

hatman · May 26, 2016, 12:39:19 AM

Are you saying the damage is just cosmetic or something else worth avoiding?
I was actually watching this one.

Major 2 · May 26, 2016, 05:08:35 AM

Mike is the authority here or Larson ....but it's cosmetic ( the drag ring ), some bolt fitting might solve the why ....
In Coffin Maker 1st. thought, in the 2nd. stupid is as stupid did !
either way the drag line is there.

The Gun is a Uberti or less likely an ASM , but could be...in either case the current bid price is a fair ball park .... or a few bits higher considering they don't come up all that often and there weren't all that many made.
EDIT

anywhere upward towards , close or doubling the current bid, would be " Outa here " IMHO

Coffinmaker · May 26, 2016, 03:32:16 PM

As long as whom ever gets this gun determines whether the "Ring Around the Cylinder" is the result of Ignorance, or Mechanical and
resolves it as necessary BEFORE they play with it or shoot it. Considering what it is, I doubt the new owner will actually shoot it.

The drag marks can be fixed, but there can be undesirable results from that as well. Matching the blueing will be very difficult.

Coffinmaker

Capt. John Fitzgerald · May 26, 2016, 05:57:15 PM

And here is another thought... What in the world makes everyone here think that this is a USPFA/USFA gun? No mention of either USPFA or USFA in the description and, to the best of my knowledge, USPFA/USFA never imported/manufactured/produced/released a firearm bearing the Colt name on the barrel address line (hopefully Gary Granger will join in here and either refute or confirm this).
This is the second time one of these "Colt marked USFA" guns has come to our attention here. Best explanation I recall is that it might, repeat might, be a gun that was made up of parts sold by USFA to a third party after they abandoned their cap and ball series of firearms. The only indication that it might be from USFA being the quality of the CCH.
All of the USPFA/USFA offerings were either Uberti or ASM guns that were imported in the white and then finished here. I have one of the USFA marked 1851 Richards Mason conversions with no Italian import markings. The quality of its fit and finish is far superior to the photographs of the 1860 Army model presented in the GunBroker ad listed above. The gun listed also does not seem to be up to the standards of the "2nd generation Colt Black Powder Series," nor that of the "3rd generation Colt Signature Series" revolvers (and I own examples of both).
So what is it? To my mind is certainly isn't a USPFA/USFA gun and, as a collector of same, I wouldn't touch it with a stick!

Coffinmaker · May 26, 2016, 08:49:36 PM

Aw ...... Cummon Cap. Say it how you really feel

I don't know it it's USPFA, USFA, Uberti, ASM, or a well finished "kit" gun. I just think it's a shame some lump put a ring around the
cylinder.

Coffinmaker

PS: Good chance the new owner could just "drop in" a new Uberti cylinder.

Capt. John Fitzgerald · May 26, 2016, 10:56:16 PM

And I most certainly agree with you, Coffinmaker. Without those bolt "drag marks" it would be a very nice 1860 reproduction. But still, I don't believe that it is anything that ever came from USFA.

Major 2 · May 27, 2016, 01:26:34 AM

Quote from: Capt. John Fitzgerald on May 26, 2016, 05:57:15 PM
And here is another thought... What in the world makes everyone here think that this is a USPFA/USFA gun? No mention of either USPFA or USFA in the description and, to the best of my knowledge, USPFA/USFA never imported/manufactured/produced/released a firearm bearing the Colt name on the barrel address line (hopefully Gary Granger will join in here and either refute or confirm this).
This is the second time one of these "Colt marked USFA" guns has come to our attention here. Best explanation I recall is that it might, repeat might, be a gun that was made up of parts sold by USFA to a third party after they abandoned their cap and ball series of firearms. The only indication that it might be from USFA being the quality of the CCH.
All of the USPFA/USFA offerings were either Uberti or ASM guns that were imported in the white and then finished here. I have one of the USFA marked 1851 Richards Mason conversions with no Italian import markings. The quality of its fit and finish is far superior to the photographs of the 1860 Army model presented in the GunBroker ad listed above. The gun listed also does not seem to be up to the standards of the "2nd generation Colt Black Powder Series," nor that of the "3rd generation Colt Signature Series" revolvers (and I own examples of both).
So what is it? To my mind is certainly isn't a USPFA/USFA gun and, as a collector of same, I wouldn't touch it with a stick!

I mentioned this....
"... there may even be a tie in-with Iver Johnson when Lou Imperato owned it and was wrapping up his own so call Signature Series Colts ... $:-\$

For a short while the Colt Address line could be had on , gun barrels left over From 3rd. Gen. Signature Series run .
I had a Walker marked as such.... ASM was assembling them , I bought mine through Mid-South Shooter Supply.
Not a bad gun , but Colt quickly put the Whammy on them ... Like with USPFA , they were hit with Law Suit saber rattling.

EDITED The Good Capt. had me revisiting the link photo.... Huh

I misread the address line ...saw the Patent DoH! .... Pt. F A totally over looked COLT

LonesomePigeon · May 27, 2016, 10:17:23 AM

The reason I think it is a USPFA is because of this thread in which Dennis Russell says that USPFA made some percussion revolvers with the Hartford barrel address.

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/22621-colt-2nd-gen-blackpowder-mystery-gun.html

BTW there was also a Walker for sale on gunsamerica with the same barrel address as the 1860 Army in question. It is "in the white" and it has an Italian proofmark on the cylinder. The seller claims it is a prototype made for Colt but he seems to be speculating and I think it's a USPFA. It just doesn't make sense that Colt would put this style of Hartford address on a percussion revolver.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/994636734/Colt-Walker-Second-Generation-pre-production-Prototype.htm

Capt. John Fitzgerald · May 27, 2016, 11:20:07 PM

Lonesome,
USPFA/USFA did issue percussion revolvers (as well as the rest of their line) with the Hartford address but they never, to the best of my knowledge, ever issued one with Colt's name on the manufacture line seen on the barrel.
Original Colt revolvers from that era bore a New York Address. USFA had always used the Hartford address. The mere fact that the gun bears a Hartford address does not make it a USFA firearm. I refer you to the Colt forum link that LonesomePidgeon listed above. Read it through to its entirety, It should enlighten you.
CJF