Is there a "correct" way to operate a Spencer?

[The Yankee Bandit]

On the SASS Wire, someone was asking about Clint Eastwood operating the Spencer in Unforgiven.  The thread was asking if Clint was doing it wrong since he levered a round in the chamber, then cocked the hammer.  Some people thought this was right, others thought he should have cocked the hammer, then levered a round.  I had never really thought about if there is a difference.  Is it possible to discharge the Spencer if you work the lever hard enough with the hammer all the way down?

Also, someone posted that Wild West Tech on the History Channel claimed that the Spencer was gravity fed and had to be pointed down to chamber a round.  I know my repro Spencer has a spring in the tube, were originals ever gravity fed?

[French Jack]

After some examination of how the Spencer is set up, I feel the "Proper" or to me the safest way is to half cock the hammer, then operate the lever smartly to chamber a fresh round, then full cock the hammer and blast away.  The reason being, when the hammer is down, there is enough pressure on the breech block slide to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face.  Operated smartly enough, it might be possible to slam fire a round.  It might also be possible to accidentally drop the hammer from full cock while operating the action.  Not a chance I wish to take. 

As far as gravity fed, whoever it was posting that was incorrect.  The originals had a spring loaded magazine.  The only reason for pointing the muzzle down was to allow the extractor to fall back in place at the breech of the barrel when chambering a round.  This insured that the extractor was in the correct position to extract the fired case, and prevented it from jamming on a case head when single loaded.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

 Some have stated in print that for safety reasons, the hammer should be cocked first, and then the action cycled. Well, that may be overkill: in neither Satterlee's "Ten Old Gun Catalogs", Marcot's book, or Pitman's "Breech-Loading Carbines", do I see a return spring or a mechanical retractor {although there may be one... I don't have an original to confirm} for the 'percussion slide'. My Romano DOES have a return spring, and perhaps the Taylor's do, too... I don't know. There are a lot of designs out there that don't; are they "unsafe"? Is your rifle going to be pointed in a safe direction when you operate it? Will you keep it clean and in good repair? I believe you will, if you love your Spencer like I do!
 If you LOSE your Magazine Follower Assembly, you can point your muzzle down and feed cartridges... But, you'll need a cork to keep them from spilling out of the Butt! I've never seen an take - down illustration without a Magazine Follower Spring. But, who knows!
 Play Safe!

                Be Well!

                                    M.T.Marfield
                                      11-13-05

[Drydock]

In the field, I half cock, then cycle.  On the CAS line, I leave the gun on my shoulder, full cock and cycle.  All fingers outside the lever when closing.  Should it discharge (never has, never seen one) I'm allready on target.  The Taylors firing pin does have a return spring.

I have cycled it a number of times with the hammer down.  Even when operated very rapidly, I've yet to see a firing pin impression on any primer.

[Harve Curry]

On my original 1865 carbine model, they were rimfire, the firing pin is a sliding flat/rectangular bar, no return spring. This bar is slightly taperd on both corners so it slides over the rimfire cartridge rim. The rimfire is not effected the same way as the central fire. Rimfire cartridge actually is better suited to the action of the Spencer.

It is my opinion that they were operated both ways. With the hammer down or cocked if the user was going to fire immediately. Either could be correct with the original rimfire.

My central fire conversion has a light firing pin return spring, but the heavy hammer keeps it down , so when I'm shooting it I try to remember to half cock first, to ease wear on my Spencer.
Sometimes I forget but like Sgt. Drydock wrote, I have'nt seen any drag or pin marks.

I saw that about the gravity fed, that's incorrect.
I think it's important when loading the magazine to hold the muzzle down at only a slight angle and let the cartridges slide down easy, not verticle and drop them hard onto each other, they are heavy. Even with flat nose bullets I think it could be touchy if you had a high primer, ouch!

When I was looking to buy my Spencer that movie Unforgiven came out and caused the price to jump $300 on the particular carbine I bought.

[French Jack]

Out of curiosity, I cycled a few rounds through the action on my Taylor's Spencer with the hammer down.  There were firing pin indentations on the primers, as the mainspring has enough force to overcome the firing pin return spring and keep the firing pin partially proturding.  There were no ignitions, as I did not do it in a "snappy" manner, and the primers were CCI.  With Federal primers who knows what would have happened?  I think that I will just operate mine with the hammer on half cock.

[Backstrap Bill]

I went out & ran 3 magazines full through the gun with the hammer down.  This was done at a range w/gun pointed into a berm, of course.  Operated the lever smartly.  No ignitions upon chambering the rounds. I didn't check for firing pin marks on the primers as each round was fired after it was loaded by cocking the hammer.

Anybody have access to a military instruction manual that might tell us how it was done by the troops?  The officers and/or noncoms must have had access to something like that in either words or pictures.

[Black River Smith]

Remember there is a difference between today modern centerfire and the original rimfire designs.

Even today after hearing the un-successful attempts to produce a firing & the fact of a return spring(did not take mine down that far), I still don't thing I would make a habit of it.  I have done it by accident and the lost of a firing pin by 'sheering' does still concerns me.  Remember the upper block moves straight down first then begins to rotate. The hammer pressure does push the firing pin forward.  Now the originals, I don't think had return springs, so doing that with a firing blade could not be good, IMO

Black River Smith

[The Yankee Bandit]

Here is a  link to a Spencer Manual of Arms from 1864

http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/7475/moainfo.html

Under loading, number 48 says:

(Third motion.) Throw forward the guard-lever as far as it will go briskly and as briskly return it against the stock and seize the piece with the right hand at the small of the stock, without deranging the position of the but.

Then number 53 says:

(Third motion.) Cock and seize the piece at the small of the stock without deranging the position of the but.

So from this, it would appear that the rifle is levered, then the hammer is cocked.  But I could be reading it wrong.   

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I have observed the following:

IN THE FIRST SPENCER I HAD, IT WAS A 56-56 AND HAD A BUFFALO ARMS CENTERFIRE BREECH BLOCK.  It WAS NOT an inertial firing pin, and had to be cocked BEFORE cycling the action. With the hammer down, the firing pin wa in the primer and the breech could not be opened.

With the second Spencer I owned, it was also a 56-56, but it had an S&S breech block.  I WAS na intertial firing pin, and could be cocked with the hammer down.

My current Spencer is a 56-50 Taylors.  I can cycle the action with the hammer down, with no imprints on the primer.  I do, however, cock to full cock and lever the round sometimes.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I just checked the Taylors Spencer manual.  I has you cycle the action with the hammer down, cocking after the round is chambered.