1866 hard to extract empty brass sometimes

[Coyote Roper]

I have an older 1866 in 44 special, 20 inch barrel.  i am having trouble extracting empty brass anywhere from two to five rounds per stage.  It will run fine for several shots and then be hard to lever an empty case out.  It is not a consistent issue, I never know when it will occur or how many shots will be affected per stage, but it does happen on almost every stage.  When it happens it takes extra finger pressure on the lever to get the case to eject and it seriously messes up my timing.

I have tried several things like thorough cleanings, adjusting lifter spring screw, springs from my 1873.  The lever seems to be in good condition, Im not sure about the lifter or the carrier.  It has stock internals, no short stroke kit.

Additionally when loading, sometimes the carrier gets out of alignment and I have to push it upward from the bottom slightly to get rounds in through the loading gate.

Any experienced 1866 shooters have any suggestions on what might be the issue and possible fixes?

Thanks
CR

[Mike]

Not sure why you think adjusting  the lifter/lever springs will help extraction issues?

I would be looking a the extractor and how it grabs the case rim, if the case is getting stuck then case overal length, are you full length sizing your cases.

 

[wildman1]

Might be rough chamber. A case that is softer than the others may expand more and stick a little. wM1

[Coffinmaker]

I have several questions for ya.  What kind of powder are you using .. BP or Smokeless???  What do the cases look like when they come
out of the gun??

Have you backed out the screws to the lever side springs to make the action run lighter??  The right side side spring does two things.
It drives the carrier down when the lever closes to pick up another round.  It holds the carrier up for the breach block (bolt) to strip
the round into the chamber.  Backing those screw out is not the way to adjust the action.

If you are having to push the Carrier Block up into alignment for loading, the Carrier Block Arm may need to be adjusted.  The Carrier Block should NOT drop below the bottom of the frame.  Adjustment of the arm is done by bending it SLIGHTLY.

Coffinmaker

[August]

Through hard knocks and repeated oversight, I've arrived at a point where -- no matter what a '66-'73 symptoms are -- I always check the bolt tab to see that it's still attached and that a crack has not begun to separate it from the bolt, and that the extractor is not cracked on the bottom side, below the pin that holds it in the bolt.  I'd be embarrassed to tell you how many times I've chased my tail on other issues only to find that either the bolt tab or extractor integrity were the problem.

Suggest you, too, start with those.  I have witnessed the symptoms you describe -- intermittent extraction/ejection -- when bolt tabs begin to fail and when extractors are secretly cracked on their bottom side.

[Coyote Roper]

Coffinmaker: I shoot black powder, the cases don't seem to be damaged or overly dirty.  I did take the rifle to the range so I could inspect the brass when the problem occurred and the brass didn't seem different than any of the other brass.  I have tried adjusting the right side screw but did not find an adjustment that improved the problem, it seemed to get worse as I loosened the screw since it lessens the tension.
Carrier Block Arm -- do you mean the spring?  It is a stock spring, can those be bent?

August: I will inspect the bolt, hopefully it isn't the problem since it was replaced last year.

Wildman1:  visual inspection with a light doesn't show any burrs, rust or dark spots.  None of the brass shows any scratches.

All brass has been trimmed recently to proper length and is full length sized during reloading.

[Coffinmaker]

Roper
Uberti large bore rifles are known for very "generous" chamber dimensions, which contributes to "generous" amounts of blow-by which
can foul the chamber and make your cartridges stick.  I personally have a .44 Special 1866 that WILL NOT run with BP or Subs.  It will
run like a Goosed Moose with smokeless but not at all with BP or Subs.

It also sounds like your Carrier Block is getting fouled.  Once fouled, it will stick and jam in it's mortice.  You may need to squirt it with a
shot of Ballistol or PAM (Peroxide Alcohol & Murphy's Oil Soap) to keep your carrier running smooth.  Along with adjusting your Carrier Block Arm (The arm runs from the lever up into the carrier block), you may wish to consider adding "Positive Slam Down) to your
carrier block arm.

The stock lever side springs cannot be adjusted.  Loosening or tightening the screws will not help.  They can be replace for lighter springs
or a skilled rifle tuner can "tune" the springs.  I personally recommend SlixSprings.  A caveat ...... Shooting BP, Subs, or dirty running
smokeless, you will need Positive Slam Down.  Without it, your carrier block will jam at about the halfway point.

Straight wall pistol cases do NOT need to be trimmed.  EVER.  They do not "stretch"  If anything, they will get a thou or so shorter.  As
long as you are able to get a good crimp, trimming is a total waste of your time.  You may wish however, to anneal the case mouth, back
about as far as the seating depth of your chosen bullet.  Annealing will allow the case mouth to obturate (expand) and better seal the chamber.  Oh, almost forgot, after trimming, the case mouth must be de-burred both inside and out.  Burrs at the case mouth can cause
your cases to stick as well.

Additional suggestion is to neck size only.  Just resize the depth of your chosen bullet.  And ..... as August mentions, check your extractor.
Grab it by the hook and try to wiggle it.  It should be pretty solid.

Ah .... Good Luck.  You have a lot to look at.

Coffinmaker

[Coyote Roper]

Thank you Coffinmaker, I will start implementing your suggestions and and see how it runs the next time out.