American Sharps vs. Italian Sharps

[Isom]

Not trying to open a can of worms,,,,, but, are the Ital. Sharps competitive with the Amer. Sharps ??. All things being equal, say from 300-1000 yds. I read Black Powder Cartridge magazine and see what equiptment the winners use and there are a smattering of Ital. Sharps. I've got an Ital. Sharps and I can ring a 18x18 piece of steel about 60% of the time. Just fooling around, 250 yds. is the longest distance around me. So, in an all out throwdown, are both rifles competitive ,,, all things being equal, you know like; shooters ability, loads, weather, etc. Just curious ! Or, are Amer. Sharps used mostly because they are an American rifle, made in America,,,, you know, like Budweiser, Jack Daniels and apple pie ?  Just curious !
Isom

[Kent Shootwell]

I'm not a competition shooter but I'm a big fan of Sharps rifles. If the Italian guns were as good as the U.S. made ones it would seem that they would be used at least the same amount in all the big time matches. For me I like my guns of any type to be as good as I can afford. The Italian Sharps very form brand to brand the better ones look OK at first glance and some have good barrels. A closer look and they all start falling behind the U.S. Sharps. A few points to notice are the shape of the wood with the forearm standing out. The breech block in the 1874 is more like a percussion converted to cartridge. Some have a plunger and spring for the lever instead of the flat spring which are easy to lose. The set trigger spring are made in a cheap manner that requires a adjusting screw not found in any American Sharps. The breech block lever is oddly shaped as well. The import guns can be rather high priced for what they are. The details won't keep the Italian guns from firing but like any product quality shows and the buyer must consider his needs and expectations.

[Ranch 13]

You just seldom ever see someone shooting a Pedersoli win matches, sometimes somebody might finish well but by and large if it's a Sharps winning the match it'll be one from Big Timber.
The Italian rifle I have shoots well, but it's fit and finish, smoothness of the lock etc, just don't match up with the Big Timber guns.
Keep working on your loads , at 250 yards 60% hits on an 18x18 plate really not to good. You should be shooting no more than 6 inch groups at that range.

[Knarley Bob]

So, what is that screw for, the one between the triggers on all the Shilo Sharps I've been looking at?
If you have double set triggers WITHOUT a way to set them, you have a real junker on your hands.
I have NEVER lost a match because of the rifle, be it USA made OR Italian. Sure there ARE some real junky Italian guns out there, but Pedersolis are not one of them.

Regards,
Knarley

[Kent Shootwell]

Knarley, the screw between the triggers is for adjusting the engagement of the front trigger to the set trigger. There is another set screw behind some Itlian Sharps rear trigger that adjusts the position of the set main spring that is a short cut to make it work correctly. It works but isn't used on better Sharps. Pedersolis are better then most Itlians but not as well made as U.S. Sharps. I'm not a thread counter but can appreciate a well made product.

[Knarley Bob]

I think it's just a shame that people are told they have to wait to get a US gun to be competitive, that's all. Some of the top shooters in SASS are shooting Italian guns and doing quite well.

You take your Shiloh, or C. sharps, I'll take my Pedersoli, and we can sit side by side. I'll guarantee neither will loose because of the brand of their gun.
It also depends on what the OP means by being competitive..........A local match or a big State or above match.
At a large State match, I wouldn't stand a chance if God made the rifle himself. But a side match, I do alright.

There comes a point of diminishing return. If you want to save for the more expensive gun, that's fine and dandy.
If you go for a cheaper,but quality Italian gun, you will be flying lead a whole lot sooner. AND gaining knowledge on loads, and shooting technique.

Regards,
Knarley

[Ranch 13]

Knarely , just some food for thought.
A few years back when Dick Trenk was the US rep from Pedersoli, he ran a match at the BPCR/BPTR nationals, sponsored by Pedersoli.
It was called the 5 at 200, shooters could enter as many times as they liked, it was even broke down into various caliber divisions, the one thing from the years that match was run, not once was it won by a Pedersoli rifle.

[Gabriel Law]

That may be a result of either of two things:  those that are winning are either better shots than those shooting Pedersoli's, or those that are winning don't care about the extra cost of the value inherent in American made BPCR's.  I shoot a Shiloh Sharps '74 from Farmindale NY and have done well with it over the 37 years I've owned it, but was beaten last summer by a friend shooting an old Pedersoli.  I'm ok with that:  he deserved to win as he shot extremely well, and I did not.  But giving him that, there is no comparison in the quality of our two rifles.

[Ranch 13]

Do the price comparison's carefully. The better quality Pedersoli's are as much and sometimes more than either of the USA built guns.
But still it was a Pedersoli sponsored match that ran for several years.....

[Knarley Bob]

I would also figure that the newer, unexperienced shooters will be shooting the "Cheaper guns", ie. Pedersolis.
There is alot more than just pulling a trigger.

If I was to wait till I could afford a Shiloh, or a C. I may not have been to the range yet. I may not have learned how to load BPCR yet, or many of the other things one learns by doing, like drop tubing or powder compression,wads,and stuff like that. One doesn't learn the ins and outs of the long range game, BPCR over night. At least I haven't.

I am on the verge of getting my "Cheepo" gun to start singing.  I am on the verge of getting a Shiloh,maybe, but it won't be in the same caliber. But what I have learned with my Pedersoli will really prove invaluable.

So telling some one that they should "Wait" may cost them how many years of time, just getting started?

A Ford Pinto is no Ferrari, but at least you're out there driving.............that's what I'm trying to say.

Knarely

[rbertalotto]

Interesting to note about "new" shooters, using less expensive firearms. I ran long range egg shoots for over 20 years. (Modern, bolt action rifles)_At first the Remingtons were always the winners. About 10 years ago the "cheap" Savages started showing up with new, inexperienced shooter.....and they were whacking eggs repeatedly at 200 and 300 yds and winning the matches. The "experienced" shooters moved on up to the "custom " class with $4000 bench rest rifles or they went out and bought a Savage to be competitive. Once again, using Savage rifles the more experienced shooters started winning again.

Bullets, Barrels and Bedding.............It always has been, always will be!

Pedersoli makes one heck of a barrel and in the right hands would be extremely competitive......A good test would be a blind A-B with a known great shooter, 6 American Sharps and 6 Pedersoli Sharps.....Lots of rounds down range and then an analysis.

Could be fun!

[Ranch 13]

Well as I've said before , do your pricing carefully.
Right now on Buffalo Arms , there is only one pedersoli under 1800, and it's just short of 1500, most are 1900 and up to 2400 and change.All but one model is listed as out of stock backorder ok.

C Sharps 74's are 1995 and 2195, and will be shipped probably in about 45 days or there about from when you order, unless you add a bunch of stuff. They also list several on the available list.
Shiloh will run  you 1900-2100 depending on model, and right now have 5 ready to ship all with a good bit of extra's including fancy wood and upgraded finish, from 23-2900. Ordering will be about 14 months, and that's the easiest way to afford one..You can also get them thru Goodman a good bit quicker than waiting as he has a standing order for several every month.

When you get right down to it if you're talking about a new gun the Pedersoli's aren't any money savers..

[Knarley Bob]

Well, to compare apples to apples:
A Shiloh Quigley will run $3464.00.
A Pedersoli Quigley will run $2404.00
The Shiloh comes with MVA vernier sights, front and back, where the Pedersoli doesn't.
Seeing as how dropping $1000.00 on sights isn't hard to do, or at least a sizable portion of that........... I stand corrected.
When I bought my Quigley, I bought the "good" Pedersoli sights and an adjustable globe with bubble level, @ about $1500.00 for the whole deal.
I haven't really kept up on pricing, so I guess I been talkin' out my wazzooo.
Ranch 13, you sir, are correct. 

Regards,

Knarley

[Ranch 13]

Knarely you left off the engraving and gold initials on the Shiloh Quigley.
If you want to compare the Pedersoli down under to a Shiloh or C Sharps, then you need to compare oranges to oranges and use the Hartford models from the USA built rifles.

[Knarley Bob]

Yeah, well the Pedersoli has a patch box.................

Actually, I'm looking at a Shiloh saddle rifle in 38-55

Knarley

[Blackpowder Burn]

And don't forget that the 1875 Sharps from C Sharps starts at $1,425.  Mine is a sub-MOA tack driver.  I think these are the best value out there.

My next purchase will be a C Sharps High Wall.

[Fox Creek Kid]

As well, money spent on an American made Sharps helps American workers. 

[Major 2]

As well, money spent on an American made Sharps helps American workers. 

yep !

and buying a Pedersoli, would do the same for American Stevedores , Seamen , Import retailers and Customs inspectors 

[1961MJS]

Yeah, well the Pedersoli has a patch box.................

Actually, I'm looking at a Shiloh saddle rifle in 38-55

Knarley

Hi Knarley

Why a .38?  Just curious, I think it would be a good hunting round.

Later

[Coal Creek Griff]

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but here's why I went with a Pedersoli over an American Sharps.  I really couldn't justify putting the money into buying a new rifle, so I was looking at the used market.  There is a vast price difference between American and Italian rifles on the used market.  I ended up with a like-new Pedersoli for under $900.  While I'd certainly prefer a Shiloh or C. Sharps rifle, and new prices might be comparable, one simply couldn't be had for my budgeted amount.  I'm happy with what I have.

CC Griff